62 replies to this topic

[chinesenoob]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum, pls kindly guide me along. A short intro of myself: I am a Singapore Chinese, having spent all my life in Singapore. Presently, I am doing a project on the roots of Singapore Chinese, focusing on the Hokkien and Cantonese dialect groups. However, I have limited knowledge of these groups, given my limited exposure from young but I am interested to know more and am going to share these information with my Singapore peers.

Any information related to Hokkien and Cantonese is welcome. Preferably information on the practises and traditions of these dialect groups.

Thanks in advance.
ljs

[General_Zhaoyun]

Hi All,

I am new to this forum, pls kindly guide me along. A short intro of myself: I am a Singapore Chinese, having spent all my life in Singapore. Presently, I am doing a project on the roots of Singapore Chinese, focusing on the Hokkien and Cantonese dialect groups. However, I have limited knowledge of these groups, given my limited exposure from young but I am interested to know more and am going to share these information with my Singapore peers.

Any information related to Hokkien and Cantonese is welcome. Preferably information on the practises and traditions of these dialect groups.

Thanks in advance.
ljs

Chinesenoob, can you read chinese?

In South East Asia, the dialect of Hokkien generally refers to "Fujianese 福建话", but in China, it's actually referring to what's called "Minnan 闽南" dialect. This dialect is spoken in Xiamen, Zhangzhou, Quanzhou region in southern parts of Fujian province as well as in Taiwan.

Because alot of Singaporean chinese originated from Xiamen, Zhangzhou and Quanzhou (southern parts of Fujian), this dialect of Minnan (Hokkien) became a major dialect spoken in Singapore.

If you can read chinese, I recommend the following chinese source on Minan language and culture:

Please refer to Minnan language and culture in Singapore at
http://gb.cri.cn/132.../662@281386.htm .

For books relating to Minnan (Hokkien language) in Singapore, you can refer to Professor Zhou Changji 周长楫's book as follow:

《新加坡闽南话概说》 (Overview on Singapore's Hokkien Language) published in 2000.

《新加坡闽南话俗语歌谣选》 (Singapore's Hokkien Common Sayings and Poetry Songs Collections)

For Hokkien lecture on Minnan culture in Singapore, listen to it online at http://media.chinara...cz/20040827.wma

[General_Zhaoyun]

Any information related to Hokkien and Cantonese is welcome. Preferably information on the practises and traditions of these dialect groups.

Thanks in advance.
ljs

If you want to understand the cultural practices and traditions of Hokkien or Cantonese groups, it's best that you start from understanding the language/dialect such as Hokkien or Cantonese, since its culture is inseparable without mentioning about the dialect. Understanding the dialects such as Hokkien or Cantonese will then allow you to understand the customs and daily 'saying' that set themselves apart from other groups. You will also need to understand the history of Minnan (Hokkien) people in China and the history of their connection to Singapore (in terms of migration, why they migrate overseas etc.)

Andy lau will probably be able to tell you more about cantonese culture. I'll brief you on Hokkien culture in Singapore. You will first need to trace the hokkien culture back to China (i.e. its roots). Only by understanding the hokkien culture in China, will you then be able to trace the culture to Singapore.

In terms of Hokkien, I've already told you that most of Singaporean Hokkien people originated from southern part of Fujian province in China, in particular Xiamen 厦门, Quanzhou 泉州, Zhangzhou 漳州 region. Hokkien is officially known as "Minnan 闽南话" in China, the official standard pronunciation is based on that of Xiamen dialect. Minnan is one of the 7 official major chinese dialects in China. The formation of Minnan dialect (hokkien) had alot to do with a mass migration of han-chinese from central plain to Min region (which is today's Fujian province) during the Qin, Han, age of fragmentation as well as Sui/Tang dynasty. Therefore, strictly speaking, the Minnan dialect still preserved the old and middle chinese tone (associated with that ancient period) that differed from today's Mandarin tone. Minnan dialect can also be called "Hoklo 河洛话" or "Hoklao 福佬话".

For Mandarin, there are about 4 tones. But in Hokkien, there are altogether 7 tones, which makes it very difficult to learn for those whose mother/native tongue is not Hokkien.

Migration of Hokkiens (Minnan people) from Quanzhou to overseas (out of China) began during Tang dynasty. In particular, they settled in different parts of south-east Asia. Among the overseas Hokkien, South East Asia contains the largest population of Hokkien (in Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippine etc.). However, the major bulk of migration began from the dawn of 19th century till 1945, as a result of worldwide chinese migration overseas that later came to be known in history as the "Chinese Diaspora". As for the "Hokkien" in Taiwan, migration from Fujian province began since 16th century till early 20th century.

In Singapore, initially, the population of the teochews were the largest by the end of 19th century. But since the early 20th century, massive migration from southern parts of Fujian expanded, resulting in Hokkiens becoming the largest chinese dialect group in Singapore. Many of the Hokkien Singaporeans still maintain some of links with their relatives back in Fujian province. Some of them still visited them whenever possible such as Qingming festivals, Mooncake festival or chinese new year.

The Hokkien dialect is divided into two main tone groups: Zhangzhou tone (漳州音） and Quanzhou tone (泉州音）. In Singapore, it has been a mixture of Zhangzhou and Quanzhou tone, plus the Hokkien in Singapore is under heavy influence from Malay and English language. For instance, in Singapore, the Hokkien term for "quarrel" is "gga lue", which is in Malay, whereas the Xiamen term is "Wan Gay". According to research done by Professor Zhou Changji, there are more than 200 hokkien 'loan words' originating from Malay, English etc. At the same time, Malay language in Singapore has also absorbed many Hokkien words such as "Bee Hoon 米粉" (rice noodle), "Teh 茶" (tea), "An Gong 安公" (Grandfather) etc. I've just recently even found a chinese word on an advertisement outside a shop in Singapore that has borrowed a hokkien word called "Gou Zah 古早" (which means "ancient"). There is no such word in Mandarin.

A thriving "Hokkien-speaking/Literary Community" before 1980s in Singapore

Before Mandarin-speaking program was introduced in 1979, the chinese community in Singapore was largely dominated by Hokkien-speaking population rather than Mandarin-speakers. Even during the 19th century, when some chinese schools were founded in Singapore by the Hokkien community, the language of instruction was in Hokkien. That means to say during the 19th century, Confucian classics and chinese literature were taught entirely in Hokkien language rather than Mandarin. This had helped to explain a strong Hokkien foundation in Singapore, not to mention literary development in the language. Hokkien only started to dwindle after 1980s, while giving way to Mandarin.

Alot of Singapore's Hokkien poetry can be found in the work "长篇叙事歌谣" (long passage narrative song poetry), for instance Kueh Huan Gua "过番歌" has about 700 lines, which clearly reflected the hardwork of Singapore's ancestors when they came to Singapore to work. Another famous Singapore's Hokkien Song Poetry such as Seh Mui Su Goon 《雪梅思君》 narrate the power of love.

Religion and Customs of Hokkien in Singapore

Just like what their ancestors did in China, the Hokkien in Singapore brought over various customs and folklore (folks culture). If you have visited Hokkien community in southern Fujian province, Taiwan, you will find alot of small temples dotted across different parts of cities or region. This is the same as in Singapore. You will be able to find many temples in Singapore, largely because such religious culture was prevalent amongst the Hokkien community, built into the folklore (folks culture) of the Minnan people in Fujian province.

Most of the Hokkiens practised a religion known as "Chinese Folks Religion (中国民间宗教）", which combines Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism as one. The distinction between each sector is often "blurred" and often many 'deities' (gods) were worshipped. There is also a 'deity' that is in particular "native" to Hokkien (Minnan) ONLY. She's called "Mazu 马祖" and was known as "the goddess of sea". Sailors or fisherman around Fujian province or Taiwan often worshipped her in order that she can protect them when they go out to the sea.

For info on Mazu, refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matsu_(goddess)

There are two famous Mazu temples in Singapore: Thian Hock Keng and Yueh Hai Ching Temple

For info about Thian Hock Keng Temple, refer to http://en.wikipedia....Thian_Hock_Keng

For info about Yueh Hai Ching temple, refer to http://en.wikipedia....ai_Ching_Temple

I suggest you to visit Thian Hock Keng temple, as it is considered to be the most important Hokkien temple in Singapore.


List of Famous Hokkien Singaporean

Tan Kah Kee 陈嘉庚
Tan Tock Seng 陈笃生
Tan Luck See 陈六使

Recommended Places for researching Hokkien Culture in Singapore

Try to go to Singapore Hokkien Huay Kuan (Singapore's Hokkien Clan Asssociaton). The website is at http://www.shhk.com.sg . It's the largest clan associations in Singapore.

Also, try Singapore Federation of Clan Association at http://www.sfcca.org.sg. They have the root history on chinese surname as well as clan association with the root chinese cities in Fujian province, where the Hokkien Singaporean originated from.


Recommended Readings on history/culture of overseas chinese in Singapore

Try the list of books published at
http://www.sfcca.org...ation/book1.htm . You might get it from Singapore federation of clan association. Note that most of the books are in chinese.

[sg_han]

Zhaoyun thanks for the commentary. Even being a Hokkien, they are still alot I do not know about my own dialect group.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Zhaoyun thanks for the commentary. Even being a Hokkien, they are still alot I do not know about my own dialect group.

Have you tried listening to the Hokkien Lecture online at http://media.chinara...cz/20040827.wma ?

It's in Hokkien and it talks about differences between the Hokkien in China and Singapore. Most of us have not learnt the Hokkien in schools, so we will find it more difficult to understand. Anyway, I can still understand about 70% of the lecture.

[sg_han]

Ya I can somewhat catch what she is saying

[xng]

Beside that, I don’t really know on what to talk about these two peoples, given they were just sino-lized barbarians.

Anyway, to me they were just the barbarians wanting to be like Chinese at north.

I suggest you read more about the history instead of labelling them as 'barbarians'.

They are han chinese who migrated from the north and a certain percentage intermarried with the yue.

Would you say Hong konger who migrated to canada and developed their unique language as entirely different from the original hong konger and labelled as 'eskimos' ?

Languages develop separately after thousand years of separation even though they had the same ancestors.

Eg. we can already see the differences between UK and US english even though they had common ancestors.

Edited by xng, 07 June 2008 - 02:17 PM.

[chinesenoob]

Thanks for all your replies.

I have been doing some online research on the Hokkien and Cantonese Dialect groups. Apparently, Singapore's dialect groups are not well-documented. (which is what my project is all about) There are 3 notable areas which define hokkien dialect group from other dialect groups: the dialect, the food and the practises.

In Singapore, we experience the "melting pot" syndrome, where many cultures are mixed together to form something which is neither here nor there; "chap-it-thiam"(11 o'clock) culture. Thus, I need some help in verifying certain Hokkien culture in Singapore. (Pls reply in this format e.g. True: 1,2,3)

Food (Hokkien?)
1) Hokkien Mee (No dark sauce variant)
2) Hokkien Mee/Lor Mee (Dark sauce variant with sliced fish and egg)
3) Ang Gu Kueh
4) Satay
5) Bak Kut Teh
6) Oolong Tea
7) Kong Ba Bao
8) Common characteristic: Simple and practical. In Fujian, the hokkiens experiences famine, so their main part of their diet is starchy food like yam and rice to fill their stomach. Pork is favoured meat because pigs can survive on anything, so Hokkiens use alot of pork in their food. Although plagued with famine, Fujian is blessed with the highest diversity of tea trees in China, so it is the home for tea and Oolong tea.

Dialect (Hokkien?)
1) Satay is derived from Sah-tay
2) Tea is derived from Te
3)Interpretation: Skewed meat and tea originates from the Hokkien and passed on to others.

Practises (Hokkien?)
I don't have any information on Hokkien practises. How do Hokkien celebrate Chinese New Year?

Thanks again for your replies.
ljs

[General_Zhaoyun]

Food (Hokkien?)
1) Hokkien Mee (No dark sauce variant)
2) Hokkien Mee/Lor Mee (Dark sauce variant with sliced fish and egg)

Hokkien Mee (noodle) 福建面 is not exactly a chinese dish originating from China. It's a "creation" by the Hokkien community in Singapore or Malaysia. It's seen only in Singapore or Malaysia.

3) Ang Gu Kueh

Ang Gu Kueh 红龟糕 (red turtle-like cake) is a common snack-food present not only in the Hokkien community in Singapore, but also in Taiwan and China.

4) Satay

It's NOT a hokkien dish. It's a Malay food, originating from the Malay word "Satay" or "Sate"

5) Bak Kut Teh

Bak Kut Teh （肉骨茶）[Pork Rib Tea] is a Hokkien food present only in Singapore or Malaysia. It is a creation by Hokkien community in Malaysia or Singapore. It does not come from China. Note that it's not exactly a form of tea, but a type of food involving pork rib cooked in soup. Because it's often eaten together with tea, it's commonly known as Pork Rib tea.

6) Oolong Tea

Oolong Tea (乌龙茶 - dark dragon tea）. Yes, it's considered to be Hokkien tea. The tea was planted in Fujian province, Taiwan and some parts of Guangdong province in China. The name originated from a tea farmer in Fujian province, who was quite dark and planted such tea and thus other people called him "Dark dragon" (or Oolong)

7) Kong Ba Bao

It's not a chinese food pertaining only to Hokkien. "Ba Bao 肉包 " (meat bun) is present in all chinese food ,whether it's hokkien, cantonese. I would say Cantonese Dim Sum has more variety of buns.

8) Common characteristic: Simple and practical. In Fujian, the hokkiens experiences famine, so their main part of their diet is starchy food like yam and rice to fill their stomach. Pork is favoured meat because pigs can survive on anything, so Hokkiens use alot of pork in their food. Although plagued with famine, Fujian is blessed with the highest diversity of tea trees in China, so it is the home for tea and Oolong tea.

Hokkien food is more 'tasteless' and 'fresh'. There is a lot of use of 'seafood' such as prawns, fish together with chilli sauce, watsabe, satay sauce. There is also alot of varied seafood such as fried oyster, fishball. As for meat dishes, there are Cooked Meat Dumpling (Hsio Ba Zhang 烧肉棕 ), crispy chicken..There are also Po-piah (薄饼), Bee Hoon (米粉）, Bee Suang (面线)...all these are hokkien dishes. These are also present in Taiwan, Fujian province.

Dialect (Hokkien?)
1) Satay is derived from Sah-tay

No, Satay (Sate) is a Malay word. Sah-tay is a hokkien transliteration of the Malay word.

2) Tea is derived from Te

Yes, "Tea" is derived from "Teh" 茶, the hokkien word for "Tea". The German word "Teh" (for tea) sounds more like the Hokkien pronounciation, rather than the English "tea".

I don't have any information on Hokkien practises. How do Hokkien celebrate Chinese New Year?

Thanks again for your replies.
ljs

The Hokkien culture is a combination of central plain chinese culture and ocean/coastal chinese culture. This produced a "hokkien spirit" in which only hardwork can result in success. This is commonly reflected in the Hokkien saying"Ai Biah Za Eh Yiah 爱拼才会赢" (only if you can fight and work hard will you win) and an adventurous spirits that is associated with the overseas immigrants in South East Asia. In fact, the Singapore "Kiasu 怕输" culture (afraid to lose) was highly associated the Hokkien spirit. There is also a Hokkien culture associated with Ancestry worship and reverence.

The Hokkien's celebration of chinese new year is just like that of any other chinese. Besides the Reunion dinner, Chinese New year (1st and 2nd day), the Hokkien also celebrated the Yuan Xiao Festival (15th day of the new year). During the moon cake festival, the Hokkien also ate mooncake

[sg_han]

The Hokkien's celebration of chinese new year is just like that of any other chinese. Besides the Reunion dinner, Chinese New year (1st and 2nd day), the Hokkien also celebrated the Yuan Xiao Festival (15th day of the new year). During the moon cake festival, the Hokkien also ate mooncake

Zhaoyun, how can you forget the prayer on the 9th day of CNY by the Hokkiens with sugarcane? This practice is unique to the Hokkiens

[General_Zhaoyun]

Zhaoyun, how can you forget the prayer on the 9th day of CNY by the Hokkiens with sugarcane? This practice is unique to the Hokkiens

Oh yeah.. sugarcane..during CNY..

Btw, Sugarcane is also used during Hokkien marriage..

[tangren]

I have to wonder what imperial exams are for when I see a reply saying Hokkiens/Cantons are sinicized southern barbarians.

IIRC Singapore has an official policy of downplaying regional and language differences of its Chinese citizens. Mandarin is pushed forward as THE language to be used, no hokkien/hakka/cantonese/teochew whatever in tv programmes. I suspect this has contributed to an erosion of 'dialect' customs.

[chinesenoob]

Oh yeah.. sugarcane..during CNY..

Btw, Sugarcane is also used during Hokkien marriage..

Care to elaborate? Why do Hokkiens pray with sugarcane on CNY? I didnt know Hokkiens use sugarcane. I

Thanks for the insights.

Zhaoyun, "satay" is a mysterious word. People in SEA thinks it originated from Malays in Malaysia or Indonesia, although there is no known evidence which I am aware of. On the other hand, malays think it came from the Hokkien because in the heydays of Singapore, the indigenious malays saw the Hokkien sailors in Malacca skewing three pieces of meat and became curious, so they asked the sailors what is the food name. The reply is " sa-tae", meaning three-stick; three bits of meat on a stick. I think I am excluding satay in my project.

ljs

[General_Zhaoyun]

Care to elaborate? Why do Hokkiens pray with sugarcane on CNY? I didnt know Hokkiens use sugarcane. I

Chinesenoob,

I'm a Taiwanese (of Minnan ancestry). I've never experienced "praying with sugarcane on CNY". You probably have to ask Sg_han to elaborate. However, during my marriage, I've seen people tying sugarcane onto the cars (which seemed to be a traditional practice).

As for the "Satay" word, I think it's still controversial. I'm not that familiar with Malay culture or the 'history of this food" so yes, it might be a good idea to avoid mentioning it in your research.

[tangren]

I don't think sugarcane are prayed to, its simply a cultural tradition in the same way mandarin oranges and limes are used in CNY celebrations. The importance of sugarcane during weddings and CNY is the auspicious nature of its lengthy structure which signifies long life, long marriage, upward progression and that sort of thing.

There is historical significance - something about sugarcane orchards hiding Hokkiens in their hour of need from invaders. Do a google on the subject and you'll get more info.