69 replies to this topic

[Yun]

Could someone assess the accuracy of the Wikipedia article linked by Q57?

[TMPikachu]

While we're on that... have any of you considered doing CHF 'brand' wikipedia articles? To spread our knowledge to the layman!

[Yun]

That's possible - we do have enough experts here to pool our resources to write more accurate articles for Wiki, or correct the errors in the existing Wiki articles.

How about voting in this new poll? http://www.chinahist...3&mode=show&st=

[Swi]

[Alexander39]

It seems that the closer to it's roots a martial art is, the more brutal and efficient it has a tendency to be. But also more simple and direct, the oldest martials arts like Pankration is not tought in their original forms anymore since they are simply to brutal for the use in the ring nowadays. but they were quite popular in the ancient world, both for entertainment and as a gift to the gods/ancestors, which also craved some blood and guts to be realy happy!

[Gweilo]

Could someone assess the accuracy of the Wikipedia article linked by Q57?

Hi Yun, I read Q57. Back in the winter of 2003/04 I researched Shaolin's history using many different internet sites, cross-referencing search topics like Shaolin, Bodhidharma, Kung Fu, Northern Wei Dynasty, Buddhism, etc. I used only English language websites. Based on that research, I believe Q57 is an accurate summation of the monastery's history. The only part that I had not seen before was that Bodhidharma was initially refused entry into the monastary. I never read that anywhere before.

Hope this helps some.

[TMPikachu]

It seems that the closer to it's roots a martial art is, the more brutal and efficient it has a tendency to be. But also more simple and direct, the oldest martials arts like Pankration is not tought in their original forms anymore since they are simply to brutal for the use in the ring nowadays. but they were quite popular in the ancient world, both for entertainment and as a gift to the gods/ancestors, which also craved some blood and guts to be realy happy!

I also think it's kinda funny that peaceful Buddhist countries or Buddhist communities are given credit for various fighting arts

Shaolin, muay thai

[ih8eurocentrix]

i read from a book written by a shalin monk that emperor and his generals luitenents visited the shaolion temple evey 4 or so years so the indian monks fighting style probaly kariput was influenced by the generals existing martial arts.

[TMPikachu]

Diversity breeds strength buddy, that's what Shaolin was known for

The fighting powers of the monks themselves are either folklore or very exaggerated, in actual events, from what I know

The Indian monk story is also largely myth

[Kediren]

http://www.sltd.de/start.php <- shaolin monastery temple in germany..

http://www.aboutshaolin.com/ <-very nice site (you need login!)

http://www.russbo.com/main.html <- another nice site..

http://www.shaolin.org.cn/ <- original site of original temple in henan..?

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1. Shaolin Quart (Shaolin Boxing)

Shaolin Quan or Shaolin boxing originated in the Shaolin Temple on Mount Songshan at Dengfeng in Henan Province. It was named after the temple. The founder of the Shaolin Quan was said to be an Indian monk, Bodhi-dharma. The proposition, though very in-fluential, was proved to be false, for there was a monk named Bodhidharma but he knew nothing at all about Chinese boxing. In fact, Shaolin Quan was the manifestation of the wisdom of the monks of the temple, secular Wushu masters and army generals and soldiers According to historical records, the Shaolin Temple was built during the Northern Wei Dynasty in the 19th calendar year of the reign of Emperor Taihe (495) and Is one of China's most famous ancient temples. The Shaolin Temple once had many monks on its premises. Those monks of the lower level mostly came from the secular society and some of them knew some martial arts before entering the temple. Those who knew mar­tial arts taught and helped each other to improve their skills. They also absorbed the experience of their predeccssors and gradually developed their martial arts into the unique Shaolin school.

During the Northern Qi Dynasty (550-577), Shaolin monks could litt hundreds of kilograms in weight and were good at boxing and horse riding. By the end of the Sui Dynasty (581-618), Li Shimin, king of the Qin State, fought with the self-appointed emperor of the Zheng state,Wang Shichong. Shaolin monks Zhi Cao, Hui Yang,
and Tan Zong took the side of Li and helped him catch the latter's nephew Wang Renze to force the selfappointed emperor to surrender. After Li Shimin was enthroned as the first emperor of the Tang Dynasty, he awarded his followers according to their military merits and contributions. Monk Tan Zong had the title of chief general conferred on him, white the Shaolin Temple was given large grants of land and money to expand the temple complex. The Shaolin Temple was allowed to organize an army of monk soldiers, who acted as military people in warring times and as monks in peace time. The Shaolin school of boxing improved and developed through the trials of battles and wars.
The Shaolin monks in the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) were all taught to practise Wushu. In the 32nd calendar year of the Jiajing reign (1553), the Shaolin military monks took part in the battles against Japanese invaders in southern China and accomplished many military exploits. Wang Shixing of the Ming Dy­nasty wrote in his Tour of Mount Song. "All of the 400 Shaolin Temple monks have good Wushu skills." "Fists and cudgels were wielded as if they were flying during practice." Cheng Chongdou also of the Ming Dynasty wrote in his book The Dossier of Shaolin Cudgel Fight: "Shaolin monks are best known for their cudgel fights." Ming general Yu Dayou, who was reputed for his anti­Japanese military Service, went to teach cudgel fighting skills in the Shaolin Temple. It was in the latter half of the Ming Dynasty that Shaolin monks switched from cudgel fighting to fist fighting, so that fist fights could ' be promoted to match cudgel fights.
In the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911) the people living around the Shaolin Temple were very active in practising Wushu, which boosted the development of the Shaolin school of martial arts. In the Shaolin Temple, the rear h^ll was used for Wushu exercises, where various kinds of weapons were displayed on the weapon Stands ready for use at any time. Some monks practised fist fighting to safeguard the temple. After years of exercises and practising, foot prints were stamped on the brick floor of the rear hall and these prints can be seen clearly even today. On the north and south walls of the White-Clothes Hall, there are Qing Dynasty murals vividly depicting the exercises practised by monks in the tem­ple.
In the fifth calendar year of the Yongzheng reign of the Qing Dynasty (1727), people were not allowed to practise Wushu. However, they could not be stopped either in the secular society or in the Shaolin Temple, where Wushu was practised Underground.
Apart from the Shaolin Temple on Mount Songshan, the Shaolin Temple was said to have set up more than a dozen Shaolin affiliates in other temples in the country. The Shaolin Temple on Mount Nine Lotus in Fujian Province during the Ming Dynasty was famous for developing the Shaolin Quan.
Around the 1911 Revolution against the Qing Dy­nasty, the Shaolin martial arts underwent further developments. Wushu clubs were established all over the country and most of them took the Shaolin Quan. Lots of patriots organized sabre and flying sword groups in order to overthrow the dynasty. They constantly prac­tised their skills and contributed greatly to the cause.
The Shaolin school is very populär in secular society with a myrad of followers. Over the years it was enriched theoretically and its techniques perfected to form
a colossal system of fist fight.
Compactness is a feature of the Shaolin school. The moves and tricks of this school are short, simple and succinct as well as versatile. While fighting, Shaolin boxers would advance and retreat straightforwardly. They need only a small space to execute their style of fist fight which is described as "fighting along a Single straight line." Shaolin Quan is powerful and speedy with rhythmic rising and falling of body movements. It stresses hardness of actions and blows but it also advo-cates softness in support of the hardness. The motto of the Shaolin fist fight says "hardness first and softness second." When jabbing or palming, the arm is required to be neither bent nor straight, in an attempt to blend external and internal forces. **


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** Essentials of Chinese Wushu
ISBN: 7-119-01477-3

http://www.amazon.co...g=UTF8&v=glance

Edited by Kediren, 16 November 2005 - 03:33 PM.

[warlordgeneral]

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Edited by warlordgeneral, 31 March 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[CARDINAL009]

From here.

I'm particularly intrigued by this paragraph:
However, some of the info is doubtful, for example, an excerpt from the next paragraph, especially the last sentence:
I wonder if what he said is true at all and am particularly intrigued by some of the sources he cited, like if they actually exist. He must mean Zhuang Zi as in the acclaimed "Daoist" philosopher and skilled debater, right? Odd, Daoist philosopher listing fighting techniques? What about the "Yin Wen Tze (Records of Art and Literature)"? I can't find anything about it. Came someone verify all these sources please?

Also, it seems pretty hard to come across any reliable sources on the real history behind Chinese martial arts. Most of the stuff I've come across were written by masters who don't have much understanding of Chinese history at all, much less the military side of Chinese history. Seems there may need to be some cooperation between those martial arts masters and real professional historians in order to produce a good book.

Quite agreed w/ you on those points on most MA instructors. Most of them are not that intellectual.

Some are narrow-minded. Can't see past the big picture.

They live, drink and smoke whatever style they learn.

[Kediren]

http://www.shaolin-s...lin/shaolin.php

I have heard that this site is a fake, with many false informations..

be careful! Many site are maked by cheaters..

In Europe have be many missunderstoods about "Shaolin Do" Or "Shaolin Karate" they have masters with 20 Dan (hehe..)


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[BowlingforIllidan]

anyone seen the episode in the History Channel's 'Warriors of the East' series on the shaolin monks? It claims that they rescued Li Shimin from the clutches of a warlord in Luoyang.

Anyone know where they got this from? I know that the monks helped Li Shimin against Wang Shichong, who was based in Luoyang, and that he patronised the shaolin monastery once on the throne, but it's a long way from there to rescuing him. If Li Shimin had ever been captured by his enemies, he would probably have been executed

I wouldn't give the show too much credit, it described the captive Li Shimin as 'son of the emperor'...

[Yun]

Well, Li Shimin was indeed just a "son of the emperor" at the time of the campaign against Wang Shichong - his father Li Yuan was ruler of the Tang and he was not even the Crown Prince. But yes, I have seen that episode before and the mythologizing was atrocious. To even suggest that Li Shimin was a helpless little kid who could be kidnapped by a warlord shows how little homework the producers did.

We have a thread about this legend here: http://www.chinahist...?showtopic=2656

Movies about the Shaolin monks may have helped put Chinese martial arts on the world map, but they have become such a mythological institution in their own right (and profited so much from it) that it is high time someone put up a website debunking the myths.