13 replies to this topic

[TMPikachu]

I know that Qin manufactured their swords and weapons to a standard. Did they do that with their armor too?

I'm wondering if the State equipped soldiers most of the time, or would there be cases of 'hand me downs' of armor and weapons?

[General_Zhaoyun]

I know that Qin manufactured their swords and weapons to a standard. Did they do that with their armor too?

I'm wondering if the State equipped soldiers most of the time, or would there be cases of 'hand me downs' of armor and weapons?

What do you mean by "hand me downs"?

[Wujiang]

It depends on the dynasty you are talking about. Normally there would be a department that specializes in making armours as well as a department that is responsible for inspection and maintainance for all weapons. The actual armourers were known as Hanren.

However, there are special cases involved. For example, the Kingdom of Yan during the warring states era, everybody knew how to make armour. So much so that no Hanren was nessessary. So each soldier provided their own armour (most likely their entire family helped with the actual construction).

I am not really sure what you are asking. You said that the Qin had a standard. So are you asking whether or not other dynasties had a standard and/or how those standards are met/observed ? Or are you asking whether or not the armour in the military was state provided or personal ? Or are you asking who actually makes the armour and the process of armour making ?

Can you please specify the question ?

[RollingWave]

I think he means that in the various dynastys, do people supply their own weapon/armor or is it generally government supplied.

In general i think it really depends on the miltiary structure, in a profesioanlized army or unmandotory conscripted one the government probably supplied most weapons.

However in systems like Fu Bing and other simliar example or a good part of the warring states period, because the ppl that got called up usually know in advance they will be more likely be able to supply their own. (i read that Qin people did often came with their own weapon and armor, as call ups was quiet routine)

However say during the Han dynasty since Iron was a state busniess and most soldiers came from conscription or pure professionals/private army, they tend to got their stuff from their employer.

[TMPikachu]

I'll specify...
Did other dynasties have standards, from dynasty to dynasty was armor provided by the state or self bought.
Rollingwave essentially answered what I was looking for, but elaborations or more details would be cool.
Weapons too (state provided weapons? self bought weapons? what dynasties did what?)
Like, again with the Qin, I've heard their swords and crossbows were all state made, to a fine standard.

[lobster]

AFAIK, soldiers in the Tang dynasty had to buy/make/etc their own armour and weapons, even horses.

[HaSY]

i thought throughout the chinese history......weapons are provided/manufactured from workshops of government department...

[RollingWave]

Hasy and TMpikachu:
Comming with ur own weapons and armor and being supplied by government may not always contradict each other.

I will give the example of Fu Bing, the various families in the Fu Bing Zones will routinly have male memebers going to serve the army, originally they may have gotten the weapons from the government workshops, but when they go back to their farm it would be easier for them to just bring back the stuff and keep it there untill the next call up. so they will often come with their own stuff.. but that stuff may also have come from the government originally.

As far as I know though, pre Qin soliders most often got a hold of their own weapons and armors, the States will sometimes have large hand outs during big wars but the weapons may circulate (espically since during this time broze was more common.. and bronze don't rust so it's easier to keep) there were famous weapons dealer or weapons making family during the warring States for example, which probably goes to suggset that many people supplied their own stuff.

However, I will admit that my knowledge in this is far from complete.

I know that the Han after Wudi's time started to state monoplize Iron, which would probably mean that all weapon came from the government. And i recall rules forbiding certain weapons from being carried etc... (such as crossbows)

The weapons workshop was probably most promient during the Song. then again it may be beause we have a much better surviving written record of it.

[Sephodwyrm]

Actually, Qin soldiers probably have to pay for their clothes and individual spending (buying them from the state)...

I got this information from archaeological diggings that unearthed letters (in bamboo strips) sent home by some Qin soldiers. Both asked for money and clothes to mend their clothes or they will "die".

The strength in the Qin army is then probably the willingness of the family of the soldiers to help fund their equipments (due to a willingness to engage in war).

[HaSY]

Actually, Qin soldiers probably have to pay for their clothes and individual spending (buying them from the state)...

I got this information from archaeological diggings that unearthed letters (in bamboo strips) sent home by some Qin soldiers. Both asked for money and clothes to mend their clothes or they will "die".

The strength in the Qin army is then probably the willingness of the family of the soldiers to help fund their equipments (due to a willingness to engage in war).

do you also mean that they also have to buy their own armor?

[lobster]

I think war is a way ordinary Qin peasants could rise to fame and wealth, while in other states there simply is no way.

[HaSY]

I think war is a way ordinary Qin peasants could rise to fame and wealth, while in other states there simply is no way. 

this has got to do with Legalism and Shang Yang's reform......

[Sephodwyrm]

They don't need to pay for their uniform. But they probably have to pay for their armor.

Lowest ranking infantry might get a uniform and a polearm of some sort.
Then he cuts a few heads. Advances in rank. Gets a bit more pay.
Uses pay to get armor and better weapons, gets few more heads.
Rinse and repeat?

Not too sure about how the system works. But of course, to become an archer or crossbowmen, you have to have really strong arms.