104 replies to this topic

[tuvan]

i am a viet Namese, i know some information that you did not mention
firstly, one of important factor that influence to the war is spies,
in Viet Nam gorvernment , there are alot of Chinese Spies. that decide the control of chinese over viet Nam gorverment..
china attacked , their soldiers only face border guard.. and paramilitary. while almost a professional Vietnam Army left in Ninh Binh, because there is a conflict in board of leaders. Spies tried to control and make a wrong decision..
even they advised VietNam gorverment surreder or leave the border to China, they also tried to delay the dicision to push our strong real army to defend.
after alot of conflit in vietNam gorverment, the TRUE Vietnamese Won, SPies run away, , as immediatly, we put our army to defeat Chinese, However Chinese run away quickly!! and Spies run away also, , some of Famouse Spies seem be Hoàng Quốc Hoan, who left Board of leader to run away with Chinese.

a Funny story that , after "a lesson" china teach VietNam , they with draw as fast as possible, .. even they can not get their died solder body.. Chinese used tatic "Human wave" to attack and lost alot people.., that tatic hd ever make US fear in Korea, but it is only a lost in vietNam. Thousands body lefts in VietNam that we understant how expensive for a chinese soldiers.. it is so CHEAP.
some people of VietNam Ethnic, used Chinese soldiers bones to make JELLY. it was called: "Cao Bành Trướng" (invader Jelly)
my father told me that there were alot of border guards run away and tell a unbelievable about chinese.. china never regret about their people and soldier life. push thousand unexperience soldier ahead, used machine gun behide and shot.. so they must run ahead and can not back.. they had no choice. vietnam guards tell that, they never see died bodies as Chinese human Wave tatic.. they can easily shot and shot, much easier that targets. they shots until do not have bullet or their gun too hot to work..
they thrown guns and run aways.
only 3weeks and lost over 30.000 soldiers. that you can image how cheap they are , and how died they are

US after run away from VietNam, they tried to back to viet Nam to get their died soldier bone, even pay a hight price. but only 3 week war, China left over 30.000 died and never back to got them.. so we can see how good Chinese goverment did with their soldier and people.. it not better than its gorverment used tank to killed thousand stundents in TIANMEN.
anyway chinese gorverment was smart to runaway to state that " lesson was done" before they could lost in more disgraceful

Edited by tuvan, 07 December 2006 - 11:28 PM.

[Novus]

i am a viet Namese,

it is so CHEAP.
some people of VietNam Ethnic, used Chinese soldiers bones to make JELLY. it was called: "Cao Bành Trướng" (invader Jelly)

they can easily shot and shot, . but only 3 week war, China left over 30.000 died and never back to got them..

Jelly was funny. what they do with that?

Interesting fact

In 3 weeks 30000 PLA soldiers died. everyday 1480 chinese died....
In several years of US- Vietnam war, 58000 US soldier died.

i am looking for any documentary movie, clip about the war. Long time ago I saw a vietnamese movie about this war. humane wave was shown in tha movie. Chinese attack in masse, when their dead soldiers fill the anti-tank trenches, PLA tanks roll over them...

Can you list names of vietnamese movies regarding the war.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

China was supplying Vietnam with second rate tech aid. All the soviet equipment aid sent through china was stripped of the best parts and replaced with chinese low tech. Aid indeed.

I saw that on too with an interview with Russian engineers during the war. They'd send down some MiGs via China..when they got there.. they were replaced with Chinese copies.

Das ist schreckliche AID.

[tuvan]

to ralphrepo, you have a good material,
i understand more clear than you about this problem
please read all of that document..
they are old, poor , urly divorded, can not find a husband in Viet Nam.
beside one of high percentage is kidnaped woman..
so i see 3 things here:
+ china goverment do not have: Humanity and people right in their policy (1child for 1family), nogoverment on the world have this cruel policy like that..
+ Chinese is also very bad in this case when they are trying to kill their own Children (if it is female one). i read alot of example of abortion, even FEMALE babies are killed in China..
so China get extremly unbalane population i think you understand clearer than me about influence of this culture and policy
nothing could advocate to chinese UNhunmaneness in this case
+ Finally chinese get farther bad action by illegal kipnapping (from vietnam, phillipines, lao, mogolia) to try to reduce chinese unbalance problem. so it make a bad image about this country,
a true story in Vietnam that China is mention as a model of kipnapper land, if i joke to a girl that , i would like to invite her travel to China, she may be angry and i am unpolited one.
so i think China should not proud about its cruel, chinese should do some thing to renew its own image, more than proud about that

Edited by tuvan, 09 December 2006 - 09:42 AM.

[tuvan]

to Novus
i just found this website when searching in Google, and i can found this topic, i see there is some very good posts in this topic, you should read it also to have moer knowledge about this war
you can see one of post ( in this topic) that have more knowledge
http://www.chinahist...p;#entry2776998

i do not think that i will back here in the future, to waste time to some unprofit topic like that
but i can tell you 3 things:
+ Vietnam smaller than China, it is true, Vietnam know about that, so we never do a crazy thing to make a war and hostile with a bigger one, UNLESS, a big one are in crazy , yeah China was in crazy to dream o leader of Socialism world, dream to defeat Russian, , dream of ruler of the world. china action was not better than US invade Iraq,
"any truth from strong one". actually China similar US in dreaming of ruller,

+ china (at least china government) tried to hide their lost, tried to accuse vietnam as a bloodthirty one, while China did it, , kill innocent local citizen, destroyed road, mine, house, burned allthings as much as they can before they run away. if we have a equal compare, it must be much more bloodthrity than US in any war
it not my speak, it in report from any where from internet (without from China)

i see they have their own proud, they never want to face the true that of bittely failed. it is natural
+ peaceful and tolerant is vietnam charateratic, i proud about that, in history, there is many time, china was lose, but we always help losed army return their country.
with US, who make alot of damage in my country, we forgive, to have a talk
with France, who invaded our country, we welcome as tourists
with japan, who invaded in short time but made alot of damage, such as millions people died by hunger, but web also forgive, , we do not object Japan Minister (Koijumi visited war temple) as China and korea did
because we forgive, we do not care, we care in what are they doing in vietnam
in this war, when China lose and withdraw, we did not run after
and now, in Viet Nam , we would like do develop country, economy more than angry about old enemy.
people do not mention any more about this war, UNLESS China countinue to grow up its tradictional crazy dream.

yeah we forgive but not forget, if enemy do a good thing, it is a friend.
goodbye, i will not back here

Edited by tuvan, 09 December 2006 - 10:03 AM.

[tuvan]

hang on i can give you some more information abit Jelly of Chinese soldier bone
i think it is really bad, but it seem be the truth, at least i have ever some time heart about that.
it was cooked by people of minority ethnic, that live in vietNam and China , and also Chinese .. after war, chinese bone was found easily, Vietnam gorvernment focus to take care victimes of chinese, rebuild infrastruture from the cruel damage of Chinese evil. so certaintly they do not care too much about enemy bone, China gorvernment as usual, do not care about their people life and soldier died. they hide the truth of heavy lost, to stated the victory as usual also..

Jelly was sold to any one need it. the deman made the suply
unfortunately, mostly people invietname do not care and do not have money to buy and was not crazy enough to use
so a alomost of jelly was sold to.. China, it was sold only in some years in this peroid time
some innocent customer used it because they think it was Jelly of monkey or wind animal
some other chinese knew , but continuelybought it, because they would like enjoy a nutrious medicine.
it is not my crazy statement, i think it not strange habit chinese, they always like nutrition. and do not care about humanlity..
there is alot of crazy food was created in China such as fresh brain of money, bear hands or died baby..
alot of crazy and cruel food is continueing china, it not difficult to find a example of cruel and bloodthirty food in China
for example: http://www.snopes.co...nibal/fetus.htm is is only the less shocked picture of the full story about that
i have ever seen their teaching and photogram of cutting and cooking died baby of chinese restaurant on internet, just say "ALOT", so Jelly of People bone was bought in China is only usual

Edited by tuvan, 10 December 2006 - 02:27 AM.

[DaMo]

^ Dude, that link points to an Urban Legends site.

[thirdgumi]

What has the traffic of women to do with the war? Let us stick to the topic and make it as academic as possible shall we.

[thirdgumi]

Ok.

[Novus]

Prostitution by one's women, is usually a sign of national defeatism.

according to your theory, every country is defeated by others in certain extent. How many countries did you defeat personally

[Yun]

China's greatest fear is that, because of the one child policy legacy, that there will be a large pool of unmarriable young and middle aged men sowing seeds of social discontent. One method of solving that is to bring in wives from abroad. Ever hear of Rape of the Sabine Women? The idea of using your enemy's women to serve your own national interest is nothing new. I'm rather surprised that so little people realize this. One problem with this, as realized by the Japanese, is that it will dilute your racial purity, itself a social antagonist. Imagine thousands of half African-Chinese teenagers coming of age in China? Social changes indeed, eh?

Interestingly, the fact that many young, single Singaporean women are unwilling to get married and have children has led to the rise of bride agencies that specialize in bringing in Vietnamese and mainland Chinese women as wives for Singaporean men. And yet at the same time, European and American expats in Singapore usually have little trouble finding a young Singaporean woman as a girlfriend, though not necessarily as a wife.

[JB_Xyooj]

WAIT A DARN SECOND!!

Didn't Mao made a quote about other nation taking their woman... about how that fine with them... cause they'll eventually become the other nation problem...

[fix]

i don't know if it as already been posted (i'm lazy and i don't whant to read 7 pages ) but there is a good article about the china/vietnam war of 1979 there
http://www.bharat-ra...3-3/bakshi.html

[Alexander39]

Interestingly, the fact that many young, single Singaporean women are unwilling to get married and have children has led to the rise of bride agencies that specialize in bringing in Vietnamese and mainland Chinese women as wives for Singaporean men. And yet at the same time, European and American expats in Singapore usually have little trouble finding a young Singaporean woman as a girlfriend, though not necessarily as a wife.

That has probably more to do whit the fact that western Expats in Singapore is at the top of the foodchain both comparativly in Singapore (It is NOT a cheap city to live in) but also comparativly to their home nations (You wont find many un-employed menial workers from Europe there).
In short it is generaly far above average Westerners they meet and get engaged to in one way or another.

[JB_Xyooj]

What about the second Sino-Vietnamese Engagment?... From what I read.. it seem as if it went pretty well for the Chinese, The Vietnamese forces were unable to unroot the Chinese from their northern border.. or something like that.

[sonnori]

The PRC launched the offensive in response to Vietnam's invasion and occupation of Cambodia, which ended the reign of the PRC-backed Khmer Rouge. After a brief incursion into Northern Vietnam, PRC troops withdrew about a month later. Both sides claimed victory in the last of the Indochina Wars.

Chinese forces
Two days later, on February 17, a PRC force of about 200,000 supported by 200 tanks from the PRC People's Liberation Army entered northern Vietnam. [15] The Chinese force consisted of units from the Kunming Military Region—later abolished—and the Guangzhou Military Region. Troops from both military regions had been assigned to assist Vietnam in its struggle against the United States just a few years earlier during the Vietnam War. Contrary to the belief that over 600,000 Chinese troops entered Vietnam, the actual number was only 200,000. However, 600,000 Chinese troops were mobilized, of which 200,000 were deployed away from their original bases.[citation needed] Around 400 tanks (specifically T-54's) were also deployed. The Chinese troop deployments were observed by US spy satellites, and the KH-9 Big Bird photographic reconnaissance satellite played an important role.[citation needed] In his state visit to the US in 1979, the Chinese paramount leader Deng Xiaoping was presented with this information and asked to confirm the numbers. He replied that the information was completely accurate. After this public confirmation in the U.S., the domestic Chinese media were finally allowed to report on these deployments.


Vietnamese forces
Many of Vietnam's elite troops were in Cambodia keeping a tight grip on its newly occupied territory. The Vietnamese government claimed they left only a force of about 70,000 including several army regular divisions and divisions of the Public Security Army (the Vietnamese equivalent of KGB border guards) in its northern area. [/b]However, the Chinese claimed to have encountered twice this number. This concept of using local militias to fight the enemy has been a staple of Vietnamese defense strategy since antiquity. The PLA managed to advance about forty kilometers into Vietnam, with fighting mainly occurring in the provinces of Cao Bang, Lao Cai and Lang Son. On March 6, the Chinese occupied the city of Lang Son. They claimed the gate to Hanoi was open, declared their punitive mission achieved, and withdrew quickly. Their strategic aim of changing the situation in Cambodia was not met.


Chinese casualties
To this day, both sides of the conflict describe themselves as the victor. The number of casualties is disputed, with some Western sources claim PLA losses at more than 60,000 casualties, including about 26,000 killed.


Chinese debacle?
There were many reasons why it could be argued that the war was a disaster for the Chinese armed forces. First, the Chinese military was using equipment and tactics from the era of the Long March, World War II and the Korean war, which meant for example, that only Chinese officers carried assault rifles, while the Vietnamese had more modern Soviet (and U.S.)[citation needed] equipment, combined with assault rifles for every soldier.[16] Second, under Deng's order, China did not use their naval power and air force to suppress enemy fire, neutralize strong points, and support their ground forces[citation needed]. Therefore, the Chinese ground forces were forced into absorbing the full impact of the Vietnamese forces' firepower.[17] Third, the PLA lacked adequate communications, transport, and logistics. Further, they were burdened with an elaborate and archaic command structure which proved inefficient in the FEBA (Forward Edge of Battle Area).[16] Their maps were 75 years old. Runners were employed to relay orders because there were few radios—those that they did have were not secure. Fourth, China was one of the only two countries in the world at the time that lacked the military rank system (the other being Albania), and thus commands were not effective. Fifth, the Cultural Revolution had significantly weakened Chinese industry, and military hardware produced suffered from poor quality, and thus did not perform well. Finally, the Chinese struck back at an enemy that was highly trained, experienced, and confident due to successive victories in wars with France, the U.S., and Cambodia.


Aftermath
The legacy of the war is lasting, especially in Vietnam. The Chinese implemented an effective "scorched-earth policy" while retreating back to China. They caused extensive damage to the Vietnamese countryside and infrastructure, through destruction of Vietnamese villages, roads, and railroads.[18]

Border skirmishes continued throughout the 1980s, including a significant skirmish in April of 1984; this saw the first use of the Type 81 Assault Rifle by the Chinese, and a naval battle over the Spratly Islands in 1988. In 1999, after many years of negotiations, China and Vietnam signed a border pact, though the line of demarcation remained secret.[19] There was a very slight adjustment of the land border at this time, resulting in land being given back to China. Vietnam's official news service reported the actual implementation of the new border around August 2001.

The war also resulted in the discrimination and consequent migration of Vietnam's ethnic Chinese. Many of these people fled as "boat people" who eventually resettled in Asian communities in Australia, Europe, North America, and back to China.

The Vietnamese government continuously requested an official apology from the Chinese government for its invasion of Vietnam, but the Chinese government had stubbornly never apologized. After the normalization of relations between the two countries, Vietnam officially dropped its demand for an apology.

Source is Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia....-Vietnamese_War

Heard what the vietnamese and chinese told about this war and both claimed that they were winners and the war caused by other party's invasion.

How do third parties generally view this war ?

Whats the most reliable casualties and losses number for both sides ?
and was this war any meaningful for both China and Vietnam ?

Edited by sonnori, 16 August 2008 - 02:13 PM.