22 replies to this topic

[cloud god]

I think you misunderstood me; of course the idea of shooting (with pre-gunpowder weapons) from a fortress is common, because its part of the idea behind fortifications; but that was not what i meant, i rather wondered how widespread the use of cannons and firearms and other gun-powder weapons were in Korea, and to what extent they were employed in defence of fortifications.

Japan was the first nation to use guns in Asia but cannons were frequently used and developed in Korea. As Yang Zongbao explained, the prototype originated in China called Huoche and Koreans innovated this and made variations of the machine.

Cloud God. Be nice.

I will be careful on the words.

[Yang Zongbao]

Japan was the first nation to use guns in Asia but cannons were frequently used and developed in Korea. As Yang Zongbao explained, the prototype originated in China called Huoche and Koreans innovated this and made variations of the machine.



I will be careful on the words.

Good to hear.

No, the Chinese had their own musketeers too, actually. They had them even before the first guns were introduced to Japan. Japan seems to be better known for firearms use by its widespread fielding of the Portuguese style teppo arquebuses though.

[Kiyomasa]

I will be careful on the words.

It's ok, after all it's fun to discuss!

How much use did Koreans make of firearms anyway?

Do you have any pictures of Korean firearms?

Edited by Kiyomasa, 13 September 2008 - 06:08 AM.

[cloud god]

Good to hear.

No, the Chinese had their own musketeers too, actually. They had them even before the first guns were introduced to Japan. Japan seems to be better known for firearms use by its widespread fielding of the Portuguese style teppo arquebuses though.

That is going to change a lot. Since the colonial time, it was generally accepted that Japan was the first one and the blueprints for guns must have come from them.

How much use did Koreans make of firearms anyway?

Do you have any pictures of Korean firearms?

Whatever China could make Korea could make as well. No guns were used but if we are talking about regular weapons like cannons there is really nothing to talk about. There was no significant emphasize over cannons but they were considered important. It is fair to say there wasn't any difference from Korean army and Chinese army except Koreans valued archery and horse archery. I don't have any pictures. Recently, I read about time bombs used at the time which was possible to control the moment of explosion. This seems more interesting than just cannons which were really common and widespread in Korea and China.

Edited by cloud god, 14 September 2008 - 04:34 PM.

[mariusj]

Actually, if Chinese talk about a good warrior, the first quality is how good of a shot he is.

[Yang Zongbao]

That is going to change a lot. Since the colonial time, it was generally accepted that Japan was the first one and the blueprints for guns must have come from them.

Actually, the Chinese were using musketeers already during their war on Dai Viet, and the Ming had an army devoted entirely to guns--the Divine Instrument Camp. Contrast that to the Japanese, who only got the arquebus in the late sengoku period from the Portuguese. The gun was definitely already known to the Chinese.

[Kiyomasa]

Thanks for the help on guns!!
Thought i'd share some images i have of joseon fortifications.

I would also really like to have the text in the images translated if possible.

Attack on a camp?
http://img126.images...reajapandm0.jpg

Defensive features
http://img387.images...20070917il9.jpg

Even more
http://img131.images...05103196xs2.jpg

And more...
http://img55.imagesh...14868037mi5.jpg

Unusual kind of wall
http://img131.images...e=wall52dy3.jpg

Different wall types
http://img131.images...ge=wallsrs1.jpg

More walls
http://img118.images...ge=wall2rn2.gif

Lots more walls
http://img118.images...ge=wall1di4.gif

Structure of wall
http://img440.images...4b1ebb2bvp7.jpg

Another one
http://img380.images...4b1ebb2bxn1.jpg

Construction of Suwon (have more of these)
http://img380.images...onseong1vs7.jpg

Some fortress
http://img380.images...mage=sadww1.jpg

Different mountain fortress design
http://img380.images...ongtypesnt7.jpg

A dragon in a gatehouse
http://img440.images...andragonex2.png

Some sort of mythological being painted on the planks of a tower, think they're called doggaebi
http://img440.images...doggaebivk7.jpg

I have lots more images i could put up later.

Does anyone know what purpose the mythological beings served? I guess they might have been used as protections from evil perhaps? Any further thoughts?

André

Edited by Kiyomasa, 19 September 2008 - 10:47 AM.

[cloud god]

Actually, if Chinese talk about a good warrior, the first quality is how good of a shot he is.

Not as much as Koreans probably. Archery meant more than just a killing art in Koreas it was a part of culture. There was a time when every man had their own bow and even scholars had to be good archers to be promoted.

Actually, the Chinese were using musketeers already during their war on Dai Viet, and the Ming had an army devoted entirely to guns--the Divine Instrument Camp. Contrast that to the Japanese, who only got the arquebus in the late sengoku period from the Portuguese. The gun was definitely already known to the Chinese.

I wasn't making an objection but only stating a fact that it is generally assumed in Korea that Japan was the first one and the concept of guns must have been introduced by them. By the way, was it China or Japan who started using hot peppers first? It would make more sense if they were introduced by an ally and not from an enemy.

Edited by cloud god, 22 September 2008 - 03:31 PM.