4 replies to this topic

[ScholarOfHistory]

You know after reading some more on Gongsun Du I find it astonishing that this topic has not been made yet. Gongsun Du was an extremely powerful man in his day. He got the position in Liao Xi/Dong region under Dong Zhou. He commented that the empire is now in disarray and it is now time to create a kingdom, he made commentaries. He made Liao Dong/Xi into Ping Province, or so he called it. As well as taking a piece of Qing on the shandong peninsula that was blocked off from the rest by mountains. He claimed it was a different province of Ying. He campaigned against the Korean Kingdom of Gorgouryeo [spelling error most likely] and won. He was also a stable state that caused refugees to move over to his lands. Though he was not the same man as Liu Yu his people did prosper and his name held wide renown. He died creating a State that could match Yuan Shao during his time. Gongsun Kang his eldest son attacked The Korean Kingdoms and the Xiongyu just as his father did. But he is perhaps best known for killing the last Yuan Family Prominents, Yuan Xi and Shang.

What do you think of him? Surely he is one of the most unappreciated characters in this era.

Edited by ScholarOfHistory, 29 August 2008 - 12:13 AM.

[ShingenT]

just another small time warlord.
he might be powerful in his region, but he bows to Cao Cao none the less. there really nothing much to say about him, there are many people like him during his time.

as for his personality,
what did Gongsun do to 李敏, when he left?

[ScholarOfHistory]

I am sorry I do not read character.


Du did not bow to Cao Cao, he never would. Gongsun Du could defeat Yuan Shao from his time, however he died before expanding into You or further in Qing or Korea. His sons Kang & Gong were the ones to have any relation to Cao Cao. Kang wanted to use the Yuan Brothers against Cao and maybe take the whole of You and Ji before needing to arrange a ceasefire, Gong on the other hand convinced Kang to kill the brothers and maintain good will with Cao Cao.

The reason why Kang did not take advantage of Cao Cao's current weakness is because of his brother, who would later serve as a temp. For Kang's son Yuan. Yuan was more like his father and his grandfather. so astute that he opened relations with Wu from there he took the men given to him and killed a few Wu diplomats & generals. Yuan then used this to build his force, a few years later instead of waiting for an opportune moment, or following Gongsun Gong's advise Yuan declared himself King and fought against Wei.

He actually had some minor success before Sima Yi and others put down the rebellion and exterminated the Gongsun Clan.

but back up a bit and you will find Kang being just as effective against the Koreans and Xiongnu as Du.

As for many people like him, was there another small time warlord who invaded both of some of the more powerful foreign forces, such as Korea [which was having its own civil war] And the Xiongnu. Was he also a stabilizing force in the region? did refugees flock over to them? I'm sorry but I would compare Gongsun Du to Yuan Shao Liu Biao Yan and Zhang, so not another small time warlord. Only more effective, the fact of the matter is Gongsun Du attracted men from around the region as well as Qing and You.

Du may have been appointed by Dong Zhou but he was not as vain as he was. Guan Ning and Wang Lie are two scholars who went to Gongsun Du. As well as a third but he made Du weary so... Guan Ning was famous in the region, Wang Lie declined officer and became a merchant. But he was famous in the region as well.

I rate Gongsun Du and his sons highly, but he was wrecked with indecision. Kang could have actually changed history and caused Cao Cao to have much more trouble in the region and allow for other minor warlords to attack as well. But then again I am not as intelligible as others on this board so I may be proven flat out wrong.

[Guan Yan]

Biography from Rafe De's book.
He's biographies are not very detailed on events though

Gongsun Du [Shengji] (d. 204); Liaodong > Xuanntu.

Son of Gongsun Yan, who had migrated to Xuantu from Liaodong, Gongsun Du held a junior post in Xuantu, but was then adopted by the Administrator Gongsun Yu, whose son Bao had died young: Gongsun Du's childhood name was also Bao, and he was the same age. Gongsun Yu arranged for Gongsun Du's marriage and further education.

In 169 Gongsun Du was nominated as Knowing the way. He came to court, responded to questions and was appointed a gentleman cadet, then joined the Imperial secretariat. He became Inspector of Ji province, but left on account of popular complaint and evidently held no office for some time.

in 189 Gongsun Du was recommended by Dong Zhuo's lieutenant Xu Rong, who also came from Xuantu, and Dong Zhuo named him Administrator of Liaodong. Though gentlemen of Liaodong had looked down upon him as a man from the frontier, Gongsun Du swiftly established his authority, killing several men of family, then expanded against Koguryo and the Wuhuan. he dominated the northeast from southern Manchuria to Liaoxi, and for a time also held position on the north of the Shandong peninsula. Styling himself Marquis of Liaodong and Governor of a new Ping province, he ruled independently, found auspicious omens and prophecies and usurped imperial ceremonial and regalia.

in 204 Cao Cao named Gongsun Du a general and marquis of a district: the latter title Gongsun Du naturally despised: he stored the insignia in h is arsenal. he died that year and was succeeded by his son Kang. - SGZ 8:252=253*, HHS 74/64B: 2418-19*; Gardiner 72A, Mather 76:543, deC 96:58-61.

[ScholarOfHistory]

huh, I wonder why they do not mention some of his notables nor his "Ying" province...