I'm wondering if anyone knows exactly how many concubines (and wives) the chinese emperor has. I often heard that the Emperor has 3000 concubines at the backyard of the Imperial palace, but is that true?
Are the no. of concubines for each dynasties the same? What was the procedure for becoming a concubine?
I read in history that many concubines were engaged in power struggle (of whom the Emperor will pamper).
Concubines for the Chinese Emperor
Started by
General_Zhaoyun
, Jun 29 2004 12:09 AM
69 replies to this topic
#1
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Posted 29 June 2004 - 12:09 AM
"夫君子之行：靜以修身，儉以養德；非淡泊無以明志，非寧靜無以致遠。" - 諸葛亮
One should seek serenity to cultivate the body, thriftiness to cultivate the morals. If you are not simple and frugal, your ambition will not sparkle. If you are not calm and cool, you will not reach far. - Zhugeliang
#2
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Posted 29 June 2004 - 10:34 AM
The number of concubines an emperor had were usually entirely up to his own discretion. But the number of concubines who have official titles was usually quite limited, because there was a strict ranking system for the most important concubines.
Sima Yan (Jin Wudi) had a harem of nearly 10, 000 beautiful women, which included the huge one that Sun Hao had collected before the Wu fell to the Jin. He also prohibited marriages for a few years after reunification so that he could collect all the beautiful single women who were still at large. The famous story from the Jin Shu is that he could never decide which concubine to spend the night with, and simply sat in a little cart drawn by sheep and let them bring him to the room of the lucky girl. And the concubines did compete for his attentions using an ingenious method - they coated the grass outside their chambers with salt, hoping to attract the sheep. But eventually there was so much salt all over the place that the sheep just went whereever they liked again.
Traditionalist historians have claimed that Sima Yan died from his exertions in that harem, and that his overindulgence also affected the quality of his sperm, with the result that many of his children died very young, and another two were retarded (including his heir Sima Zhong). I personally doubt both of these theories, since there is no scientific basis for the traditional Chinese belief that too much sex will damage your health and the quality of your offspring.
Sima Yan (Jin Wudi) had a harem of nearly 10, 000 beautiful women, which included the huge one that Sun Hao had collected before the Wu fell to the Jin. He also prohibited marriages for a few years after reunification so that he could collect all the beautiful single women who were still at large. The famous story from the Jin Shu is that he could never decide which concubine to spend the night with, and simply sat in a little cart drawn by sheep and let them bring him to the room of the lucky girl. And the concubines did compete for his attentions using an ingenious method - they coated the grass outside their chambers with salt, hoping to attract the sheep. But eventually there was so much salt all over the place that the sheep just went whereever they liked again.
Traditionalist historians have claimed that Sima Yan died from his exertions in that harem, and that his overindulgence also affected the quality of his sperm, with the result that many of his children died very young, and another two were retarded (including his heir Sima Zhong). I personally doubt both of these theories, since there is no scientific basis for the traditional Chinese belief that too much sex will damage your health and the quality of your offspring.
The dead have passed beyond our power to honour or dishonour them, but not beyond our ability to try and understand.
#3
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Posted 29 June 2004 - 09:52 PM
It seems that the chinese in the past has a precise time for the emperor to sleep with the concubine. This will ensure the quality of the sperm and make sure that the offspring is a male.
"夫君子之行：靜以修身，儉以養德；非淡泊無以明志，非寧靜無以致遠。" - 諸葛亮
One should seek serenity to cultivate the body, thriftiness to cultivate the morals. If you are not simple and frugal, your ambition will not sparkle. If you are not calm and cool, you will not reach far. - Zhugeliang
#4
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Posted 29 June 2004 - 10:38 PM
Yes, and the timing of conception was also very important to the court. In fact, this led to the Chinese invention of the first mechanical clock in 1088 by Su Song, in a bid to keep time for the emperor ZheZong.It seems that the chinese in the past has a precise time for the emperor to sleep with the concubine.
Replica of Chinese mechanical clock
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#5
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Posted 29 June 2004 - 10:41 PM
More about the clock: http://campus.northp.../SongClock.html
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#6
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Posted 30 June 2004 - 12:30 AM
Wow...10,000 women huh?!?!
If it's one part of Chinese history that I hate, it's polygamy.
If it's one part of Chinese history that I hate, it's polygamy.
#7
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Posted 30 June 2004 - 01:22 AM
Polygamy is practised throughout ancient China until the republic times (1911 onwards).
In the past, if you're rich enough, man can have many wives. In fact, it's a symbol of status and power to have many wives. The chinese were very careful about passing offsprings and making sure that the wive give birth to a male offspring, so that the family lineage can continue. If a wife cannot give birth to a male offspring, then he will just ask another wife to give birth.
In the past, if you're rich enough, man can have many wives. In fact, it's a symbol of status and power to have many wives. The chinese were very careful about passing offsprings and making sure that the wive give birth to a male offspring, so that the family lineage can continue. If a wife cannot give birth to a male offspring, then he will just ask another wife to give birth.
"夫君子之行：靜以修身，儉以養德；非淡泊無以明志，非寧靜無以致遠。" - 諸葛亮
One should seek serenity to cultivate the body, thriftiness to cultivate the morals. If you are not simple and frugal, your ambition will not sparkle. If you are not calm and cool, you will not reach far. - Zhugeliang
#8
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Posted 30 June 2004 - 07:49 AM
Actually, the Chinese system of polygamy only allows for one wife, who is called the zhengshi 正室 or zhengqi 正妻. The others are concubines (qie 妾 or ceshi 侧室), and their sons are not allowed to be the heir to the father's property unless the wife cannot produce a son, or her son dies early. If the wife cannot produce a son, she is duty-bound to help the husband get a concubine who can. If she does not, perhaps out of jealousy, the husband is entitled to divorce her.
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Posted 01 July 2004 - 12:02 AM
Even today :D , just it's illegal now and criticised by society.Polygamy is practised throughout ancient China until the republic times (1911 onwards).
Human is evil by nature - Xun Zi
Therefor, its existence is a crime, and the punishment is death - thirdgumi
Therefor, its existence is a crime, and the punishment is death - thirdgumi
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#11
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Posted 05 July 2004 - 11:58 PM
Well, polygamy indeed was popular in China.
Many rich man that had a wife could afford to get concubines, and even then, some may still go to the brothels for prostitutes!
The part I don't get is that: women usually don't affect the chances of good birth as much as the sperm of a man.
Ah well, science weren't that prosperous back then, let that be a lesson to the "polygamists". ;)
P.S. If I was an emperor, I would stop accepting eunuchs, and convert 99% of those concubines to servants instead!
No man needs more than 10 women, even in the ancient times. <_<
Many rich man that had a wife could afford to get concubines, and even then, some may still go to the brothels for prostitutes!
The part I don't get is that: women usually don't affect the chances of good birth as much as the sperm of a man.
Ah well, science weren't that prosperous back then, let that be a lesson to the "polygamists". ;)
P.S. If I was an emperor, I would stop accepting eunuchs, and convert 99% of those concubines to servants instead!
No man needs more than 10 women, even in the ancient times. <_<
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Posted 06 July 2004 - 06:34 AM
The problem was, women don't have the strength for some heavy works in palace.P.S. If I was an emperor, I would stop accepting eunuchs, and convert 99% of those concubines to servants instead!
Human is evil by nature - Xun Zi
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Therefor, its existence is a crime, and the punishment is death - thirdgumi
#13
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Posted 06 July 2004 - 01:36 PM
Sounds like a legend or myth to me ;) .I'm wondering if anyone knows exactly how many concubines (and wives) the chinese emperor has. I often heard that the Emperor has 3000 concubines at the backyard of the Imperial palace, but is that true?
#14
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Posted 08 July 2004 - 02:50 PM
But didn't eunuchs lose their testosterones prior to their growth without the needed organs?The problem was, women don't have the strength for some heavy works in palace.P.S. If I was an emperor, I would stop accepting eunuchs, and convert 99% of those concubines to servants instead!
I was thinking that, the strength of females can't be underestimated. Have you seen some women in China that work in the farms? Stronger than the average man in the metropolis! :D
Besides, I think the numbers of servants I would have can take care of the rougher work... two women can probably have at least the strength of one eunuch.
#15
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Posted 08 July 2004 - 03:35 PM
Retrain the concubines to become customer service representative of the people. That way, they can babble the ears of the emporer till he goes nuts...logically, he'd cut down on the number of women at that point...
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