69 replies to this topic

[yehzhaofeng]

Concubines I believe(or the Concubine's servants) are chosen every 3 years. COncubines are chosen by each of the Emperor's wives or mother, aunts, concubines. It is much like a Pageant, the concubine must be pretty, intellegent, courteous, and by all mans, a decent person.

[thirdgumi]

I've seen some photos of Qing dynasty concubines, only one word to discribe them: Ugly.

[Ghost_of_Han]

I am reading the History of the Former Han Dynasty, and when they talk about Han Ai's mother, they call her: Concubine [nee] Ting (Wade Giles).

What is with the "[nee]", I noticed his grandmother had that in her name as well. Any ideas?

[Daniel]

Actually, the Chinese system of polygamy only allows for one wife, who is called the zhengshi 正室 or zhengqi 正妻. The others are concubines (qie 妾 or ceshi 侧室), and their sons are not allowed to be the heir to the father's property unless the wife cannot produce a son, or her son dies early. If the wife cannot produce a son, she is duty-bound to help the husband get a concubine who can. If she does not, perhaps out of jealousy, the husband is entitled to divorce her.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now I get it! I was confused how Zichu and Zheng could become kings of Qin even though they were born to concubines. Their fathers' wives must not have had any living sons.

You use the words zhengshi, zhengqi, qie and ceshi. What about taitai? When I saw Zhang's movie of Raise the Red Lantern, I remember all four ladies of the house were called taitai. Was this a misuse of the word, or can taitai mean both wife and concubine?

I guess everybody could have concubines, not just kings and emperors? At least, Lu Buwei had concubines, and he was a merchant, and merchants were at the bottom of Qin's social scale.

It would appear that concubines were tradeable, since Lu gave his concubine to Zichu. Were wives also tradeable? I see that in the case you cited below, the emperor took other men's wives and killed them if they refused, but did men sell or give their wives to anyone other than the emperor?

What was the more usual fate of royal concubines' children? Did they become military officers, or royal servants?

[General_Zhaoyun]

taitai..also means wife.. in chinese

[Yun]

What is with the "[nee]", I noticed his grandmother had that in her name as well. Any ideas?

"nee" is a French word meaning 'born' (it actually has an accent above the second 'e', but that wouldn;t show up here) - it is used in a married woman's name to indicate the family name she was born in. For example, Hillary Clinton nee Rodham. The Chinese equivalent is 'shi', so a married woman called Ding-shi would be 'nee Ding' or sometimes 'woman Ding' in Western sources.

What was the more usual fate of royal concubines' children? Did they become military officers, or royal servants?

The children of imperial concubines would be imperial princes, but they would not be eligible to be Crown Prince as long as the Empress' son was alive. Often, however, the Emperor would want to break that rule because he favoured a concubine over his Empress. The court ministers would make a big fuss about this ethical violation, because it was traditionally believed to be a potential cause of dynastic decline.

[snowybeagle]

technically, it need 8.22 years to sleep with every concubine once. This is provided the emperor works hard for 365 days a year and no medical leave or holiday. (I would not mind the hard work and i would aim less than 8 yrs ).

Beware, there is also a reason why many emperors (and others who have similar practices) die young. Tonics for vitality just hasten the process.

[snowybeagle]

also, were all the emperor's women beautiful or pretty?or does he just take any girl?

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Depends.

A powerful noble family could force their daughter into the harem, even to the position of the empress.

One well known example was the Empress Jia of Emperor Hui of Jin (晋惠帝). She was much older than her husband, she was fat, she was dark, she was ugly and she was nasty. The Emperor was supposed to be stupid, but even he was afraid of her.

[Yun]

She was also the daughter of Jia Chong, Sima Zhao's 'evil henchman'. When Jia Chong was about to be forced into exile by his political enemies, he skilfully engineered his survival in the imperial court by getting his cronies to tell Sima Yan how pretty his daughter was, so that Sima Yan chose her as Sima Zhong's (later Jin Huidi) wife without even checking to see what she looked like. An early example of the power of 'spin'!

[Koolasuchus]

I've seen some photos of Qing dynasty concubines, only one word to discribe them: Ugly.

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That is because the Qing dynasty requires all the emperor's concubines be Manchus, and since Manchus have been inbreeding to keep their bloodlines "pure" the ugliness can thus be explained.

[snowybeagle]

Who says? I had aimed like kangxi and qianlong who lived to pretty old (qianlong - more than 80). If it means a shorter span, how many can boast like "me"(hypothetical) that had a very "productive" life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They were the exceptions, and they concentrated a lot on state affairs.
How many Chinese emperors ascended to the throne as a young man and lived to a ripe old age?

If you want that kind of "blessing", opt to remain a prince rather than assume the throne - there would not be any important matters at stake.

[thirdgumi]

How many childrens did Kang Xi and Qiang Long have? I've heard it was a lot.

[Koolasuchus]

How many childrens did Kang Xi and Qiang Long have? I've heard it was a lot.

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Kang Xi has some 30 something sons alone, not counting daughters.