5 replies to this topic

[Boleslaw I]

Hello all!
I have just known the existence of a source called Guoyu (國語). It seems to be written during the Spring and Autumns Period as well as Warring States Period, yet I have never seen many people cited this source. Instead, the Zuo Zhuan becomes the main to study these two periods. Could anyone please explain what is wrong with the book?

[fcharton]

The Guoyu (discourses of the states), ascribed, like the Zuozhuan, to Zuo Qiuming, is most certainly a Warring States compilation from different sources. Several reasons why it gets less mentioned (on CHF notably)

1- it is more a compilation of speeches than a proper history book
2- it never was considered a classic, and as such is less famous than the Zuozhuan, which is a commentary of the Chunqiu
3- it never was translated into english
4- it is (imho) slightly more difficult to read than the Zuozhuan, and has less modern editions (esp with baihua translation)

Francois

[DrGoldin]

You are right that Guoyu (Discourses of the States) is a badly neglected text and the reasons are somewhat mysterious to me. It almost certainly was not written during the Springs and Autumns; in fact, parts of it appear to be substantially later than the Zuozhuan, and I don't believe the Zuozhuan was written during the Springs and Autumns either. But it's still a lengthy and very useful Warring States text, and I don't quite understand why, especially in the West, few scholars spend much time with it. (David Schaberg discussed the Guoyu in his excellent book, A Patterned Past, but even he focused much more heavily on the Zuozhuan.)

My suspicion is that there's a combination of reasons: (1) there's no complete English translation; (2) it's not easy, and the oldest commentary, by Wei Zhao 韋昭 (A.D. 204-273), is notoriously unreliable; and (3) these days most people in the early China field are spending the bulk of their time with recently excavated texts.

Yi Zhoushu 逸周書 is another received text that, like Guoyu, is extremely valuable and badly neglected.

Hello all!
I have just known the existence of a source called Guoyu (國語). It seems to be written during the Spring and Autumns Period as well as Warring States Period, yet I have never seen many people cited this source. Instead, the Zuo Zhuan becomes the main to study these two periods. Could anyone please explain what is wrong with the book?

[Bao Pu]

Hi professor Goldin,

I'd like to welcome you to the forum also (as Yun has). Hopefully, you'll find some time to keep an eye on this place and offer your thoughts from time to time. Apparently there's a new translation of the Zuozhuan in the works, but no Guoyu:
http://www.chinahist...p;#entry4953796

Too bad.

Wei Chuxian 衛聚賢 claims that the Guoyu was written in Chu (Early Chinese texts: A Bibliographical Guide, Ed. Loewe, p. 264). His dates strike me as a bit too early. Have you ever looked at his study?

[kaiselin]

This subject looks like something that would be worthy of an article in the Han Lin Journal.

Anyone up to that?

[topwaybest]

I am planning to translate this book into English. Here's the first paragraph. Please do me a favour and give me your valuable comment or criticism.

穆王将征犬戎，祭公谋父谏曰：“不可。先王耀德不观兵。夫兵戢而时动，动则威，观则玩，玩则无震。是故周文公之颂曰：‘载戢干戈，载櫜弓矢。我求懿德，肆于时夏，允王保之。’先王之于民也，懋正其德而厚其性，阜其财求而利其器用，明利害之乡，以文修之，使务利而避害，怀德而畏威，故能保世以滋大。

King Mu of Chou was about to attack the tribe Quanrong, when Moufu , the Duke of Zhai, remonstrated, “Please don’t! Former kings sought to demonstrate their virtues instead of their weapons. Weapons are stored away only for needed use. When used at a needed time, they are awesome. But if you make a show of them, they are becoming abused. An abuse of weapons could not create deterrence. For this reason the Hymn by Duke Wen of Chou went:
With spears and shields stored up in rows,
And in their cases arrows and bows.
The king will do his best
To rule the kingdom east and west.
O may our king be blessed.
The way the former kings treated the people was to encourage them to straighten out their virtues and raise their honesty, to help increase their wealthy and sharpen their weapons and farm tools, to make them understand where the benefit and the harm lie, and to teach them with etiquettes to pursue the beneficial and shun the harmful and be grateful for the king’s benevolence and afraid of his awesome power. For this reason they could maintain their world generation after generation and make it get stronger and stronger.