11 replies to this topic

[Snafu]

Well even though it's not representative of traditional Chinese military structure, I do know what the military heriarchy of the Jin/Jurchen army was.

Each soldier in the Jurchen army was accompanied by an A-li-hsi or auxiliary soldier (usually conscripted slaves). Officers in the Jurchen army bore the same titles as their respective units. The lowest ranking officier was called a P'u-li-yen, a commander of about 50. Next were the Mou-k'o, commanders of about 300. Above them were the Meng-an, commanders of about 3,000. Higher up were the Wan-hu, the generals of 10,000. Then came the Tu-t'ung or Chief Commander, and in wartime a Commander-in-chief (Tu yuan-shuai) was chosen to lead the entire army.

Outside of the regular army there were also specialized military units like the Ho-cha, which served as the imperial bodyguard to the emperor and crown prince (candidates for the Ho-cha had to be at least 5'5 tall), and the Chiu units, which were frontier defense detachments.

[TMPikachu]

to add to the question...
I've read that animal signs are sometimes used to name ranks
something like birds for scholars, and land animals for commanders, or the other way around.

[Yun]

http://www.chinahist...p?showtopic=126 has some info on the ranks of generals. It's far from complete, though.

Here's the military ranking system of the Northern and Southern Dynasties (439-589, during the Age of Fragmentation):

[Format-
Unit: Commander
Second-in-command]

部 bu (Division): 将军 jiangjun (General)
统军 tongjun (Lieutenant-General)

军 jun (Regiment): 军主 junzhu (Colonel)
军副 junfu (Lieutenant-Colonel)

队 dui (Company): 队主 duizhu (Captain)
队副 duifu (Lieutenant)

Other less formal ranks:
幢主 chuangzhu (Detachment Commander)
戍主 shuzhu (Garrison Commander)

[Yun]

I've read that animal signs are sometimes used to name ranks
something like birds for scholars, and land animals for commanders, or the other way around.

That was in the Qing, and you're in luck - the second post on this thread just listed them all out:

http://www.chinahist...5

[TMPikachu]

That was in the Qing, and you're in luck - the second post on this thread just listed them all out:

http://www.chinahist...5

 

but the book I was reading was like... Song era stuff. Could the Qing have gotten it from an older historic example?

[Snafu]

You're thinking of the insignia officials wore on their robes during the Qing era. Civil officials wore different types of birds and military officials wore land animals (generally fierce ones like lions and rhinos). As far as I know the Sung didn't use this practice at all. Sung officials showed their ranks by the color of their robes. The highest ranking officials wore purple and I think the lowest wore blue.

[浪淘音]

You're thinking of the insignia officials wore on their robes during the Qing era. Civil officials wore different types of birds and military officials wore land animals (generally fierce ones like lions and rhinos). As far as I know the Sung didn't use this practice at all. Sung officials showed their ranks by the color of their robes. The highest ranking officials wore purple and I think the lowest wore blue.

 

insignia robes were common in Ming as well

[HaSY]

as I don't know how to read Chinese letters...........I used a program to translate the Qing military.........
but the results are different than what have I think..........
can someone please translate to me?thanks

[Snafu]

thanks so much for the help! this will definately help out alot!

are there any good translation programs for mandarin that you know of out there that shows like a brushstroke count or anything?

 

Here's a good online character dictionary that gives brush strokes.

http://chineselangua...n&show=frequent

And here's another site that lists characters in both simplified and traditional versions.

http://www.mandarint...m/chardict.html