194 replies to this topic

[Terence1]

Recently in History Channel , there's a new series called Ancient Discoveries. Guess what, every time they show some chinese Naval technological innovation, they show Gavin Menzies talking...

Thats' not very healthy for Chinese history...

[Wayne]

Recently in History Channel , there's a new series called Ancient Discoveries. Guess what, every time they show some chinese Naval technological innovation, they show Gavin Menzies talking...

Thats' not very healthy for Chinese history...

I bought this book (err...yes I did!) some years back. I feel so stupid just looking at it sitting on my shelf now. A lesson learnt!

[Tibet Libre]

Never understood the hype around Menzies' crackpot theory anyway. Even if we allow it for a moment to be the historical truth, the interpretation of world history would not have needed to be changes. Because the first undisputed discoverers of America in historical times would be still the Vikings, and the Spanish discovery would still be the one which made the lasting impact on world history. And Zheng He would have still been none of it, falling though the grid in both categories.

Edited by Tibet Libre, 07 July 2009 - 07:08 AM.

[Wayne]

Never understood the hype around Menzies' crackpot theory anyway. Even if we allow it for a moment to be the historical truth, the interpretation of world history would not have needed to be changes. Because the first undisputed discoverers of America in historical times would be still the Vikings, and the Spanish discovery would still be the one which made the lasting impact on world history. And Zheng He would have still been none of it, falling though the grid in both categories.

Nah! He would still have the honour of being the 1st to circumnavigate the earth...hehe!

[Erich]

Hi
I am interested in finding the old Chinese tablets that are around Boston. In October I will be for my brother birthday and I will have 4 days free to search for them. Apart from a map of Menzies I have no more infromation. I wrote to the Boston and Massachusstets tourist office but they even did not reply. I will take a car and wonder around hoping to find them so I can take pictures and who knows may be able to translate them
Regards
Erich Lewitus

[ctrlsave]

Whatever the end results that comes out of menzies book and his research, as well as the research from the academic world. It's going to be good
because the voyages of zheng he have been left in a corner for too long. In Singapore, when i had my chinese lessons in primary school. we were taught that Zheng he made 7 voyages down the " 西洋 western ocean " but nothing else was described due to the records being destroyed during the ming dynasty.

So i think that these discussions are in fact good for the progression for this research.

[SlickSlicer]

I bought this book (err...yes I did!) some years back. I feel so stupid just looking at it sitting on my shelf now. A lesson learnt!

I think all of us feel this way. I didn't buy this book when it came out because I was still a kid, but my dad bought it for me at that time, and I did read it. In my childish naivete, of course I was willing to believe anything I read at the time. But even when I read it I was somewhat skeptical, as I noticed on the Internet that there was a LOT of criticism of the book and very little acceptance. As time went on it became increasingly obvious that Gavin Menzies was a fiction writer who had capitalized on a very good scam. Then he released another book called 1434: The Year China Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance, which removed all doubt. To be honest, it's a pretty entertaining series of fiction. I hope he makes it a trilogy with 1453: The Year China Helped Conquer the Byzantine Empire. Then he can maybe secure a movie deal, merchandising line and video game.

As an aside, I recently found a book called 1587, A Year of No Significance: The Ming Dynasty in Decline by Ray Huang. The title made me laugh pretty hard.

Edited by SlickSlicer, 23 July 2011 - 02:09 PM.

[Tibet Libre]

Prof. Dr. Menzies has another book in the making, the "Lost Treasures of Atlantis". Please consider his new book for buying. It describes the global trade network established by the Minoan civilisation 4.000 years before Columbus set sail. His ground-breaking findings are every bit up to his earlier works which have established the Chinese discovery of America and Australia and that the Renaissance was graciously sparked by globe-trotting Chinese fleets providing backward Europe with their superior technological and scientific knowledge and higher moral standards.

http://www.gavinmenz...x.asp?NewsID=40

[SlickSlicer]

Wow I guess he got bored of China!

What other new and exciting people beat European explorers around the world? I'm sure he'll enlighten us with even more carefully researched books on the subject!

[Tibet Libre]

http://online.wsj.co...7531544685.html

Minoans from Crete sailed to America with ships three times the size of Columbus, mined copper in the Lake Superior region and brought back tobacco to Bronze Age Europe. The truth is out there, Prof. Dr. Menzies maintains, we just have to keep an open mind to see it.

[peger]

I find the idea that either Spain or China 'discovered' America incredibly arrogant given there were people living there for millenia already. It would be nice if Menzies work could be judged based on its merit rather than constantly laced with insufferable nationalistic nonsense from both Western & Chinese critics/enthusiasts.

[Tibet Libre]

It would be nice if Menzies work could be judged based on its merit...

What is this merit?

[peger]

What is this merit?

LOL, I meant in the sense it should be judged based on the quality of its research, not just blindly taken as fact or rejected for some nationalistic agenda.

[Tibet Libre]

LOL, I meant in the sense it should be judged based on the quality of its research, not just blindly taken as fact or rejected for some nationalistic agenda.

Well, Menzies' crackpot 'research' lacks quality altogether, so I'd say that settles the question.

[nicopolo]

Did China ignited the renaissance? It is really interesting to look into it.
All started in Italy with a love for reading and a maniac old-book hunt much earlier that 1434.
It is academically documented that a lot came from the Arabs. Aristotle and Averroes, were translated from arabic into latin in Palermo the Southern capital of Frederick II (1194-1250). The Arabs navigated the Indian Ocean and met there the Chinese (Zhenghe or someone else does not really matter) and of course the Indians, with their knowledge of mathematics.
Sure the Chinese had a role in the Italian renaissance. As did the ancient Greeks, the Arabs, the Indians ...
Can we put together some examples of similarities and reciprocal influence?
The Chinese renaissance happened in the Southern Song court. They were passionate for archaeology and they were book hunters too. They developed free economy, naval commerce, rich culture. They used naval compass and gunpower and movable block print. Zhu Xi (1130-1200) founded the school of principles, which advocates Gewu, investigation of things ... very modern science to me.