14 replies to this topic

[Freddy1]

Is there really 108 stars used in Chinese astrology? (Theres a few sites that mentions it in passing but its not really confirmed.)

Is it an error?

Edited by General_Zhaoyun, 10 May 2009 - 10:19 PM.
Make title more appropriate

[General_Zhaoyun]

Although 108 is an auspicious number in Chinese divination, I've never heard of "108 stars" in Chinese Astrology. Just curious, where did you read about "108 Stars" ?

[qrasy]

That is not an error.
It's the divination called 紫微斗數 Ziwei Doushu.
There's some variations on the number of stars, I've even heard of 110.

[Freddy1]

Although 108 is an auspicious number in Chinese divination, I've never heard of "108 stars" in Chinese Astrology. Just curious, where did you read about "108 Stars" ?

I read it in several places but I was suspicious of it. They seemed to have been copied & pasted from a primary source and just repeated it back over and over again on several websites.
I think Grasy has confirmed the 108 stars.

"Chinese: The Chinese Buddhists and Taoists use a 108 bead mala, which is called su-chu, and has three dividing beads, so the mala is divided into three parts of 36 each. Chinese astrology says that there are 108 sacred stars. "
http://www.panditraj...asp?mediaid=165
http://www.swamij.com/108.htm
http://www.trsiyengar.com/id108.shtml (see near bottom of thier page)
http://www.hknet.org...108meaning.html

"3. There are 108 sacred stars in Chinese Astrology and The ANGELUS bell is wrung 108
times."
http://www.scoreboar...8numerology.htm


"108 sacred stars are recorded in Chinese astrology and Tao philosophy." (This is from some obscure American article.)
http://www.oregonliv...e_front_pa.html

Edited by Freddy1, 15 May 2009 - 06:39 AM.

[Craig]

Is there really 108 stars used in Chinese astrology? (Theres a few sites that mentions it in passing but its not really confirmed.)

Is it an error?

I recall reading in Joseph Needham that the Chinese had catalogued over three thousand stars well before the Han.

[qrasy]

I recall reading in Joseph Needham that the Chinese had catalogued over three thousand stars well before the Han.

I guess that's astronomy, not astrology.

Btw, even for Western astrology, we use constellations instead of individual stars (plus solar system objects), and we don't even use all of the astronomical constellations. That causes huge difference in number.

In 紫微斗數 (Ziwei Doushu), if I'm not wrong the stars are either single stars or "double stars".
And then, 紫微斗數 doesn't actually use the 28 Chinese constellations of lunar mansion, but some different Chinese astrology have them in (and not the stars used in 紫微斗數).

Edited by qrasy, 18 May 2009 - 08:56 AM.

[Shaolin]

Ziwei Doushu do have 100+ stars. but most stars are "Imaginary". To plot out the Ziwei Chart, The major 36 stars should be sufficient enough.

[Craig]

I guess that's astronomy, not astrology.

Btw, even for Western astrology, we use constellations instead of individual stars (plus solar system objects), and we don't even use all of the astronomical constellations. That causes huge difference in number.

In 紫微斗數 (Ziwei Doushu), if I'm not wrong the stars are either single stars or "double stars".
And then, 紫微斗數 doesn't actually use the 28 Chinese constellations of lunar mansion, but some different Chinese astrology have them in (and not the stars used in 紫微斗數).

Astrology, Western or Eastern, is a proto-science...like alchemy is to chemistry. The hsiu system of lunar mansions is a broader classification than the star catalogues. In western 'astrology' there are only 12 constellations. There may be only a small number of 'sacred stars' in Chinese astrology, but to the astronomer or layman, a glance at the night sky certainly reveals more than 108 stars.

[Lin Duanwen]

36天罡 72地煞

36+72=108

[qrasy]

Astrology, Western or Eastern, is a proto-science...like alchemy is to chemistry. The hsiu system of lunar mansions is a broader classification than the star catalogues. In western 'astrology' there are only 12 constellations. There may be only a small number of 'sacred stars' in Chinese astrology, but to the astronomer or layman, a glance at the night sky certainly reveals more than 108 stars.

Basically, they don't use "all visible stars" in the divination.
And then... the 14 "biggest stars" in 紫微斗數 were actually from 南斗 (same as 斗宿) and 北斗 (big dipper) Chinese constellations (星官).

In Western astrology there are only 12 constellations plus solar system objects, but certainly from Europe we can see other constellations at night, such as the big dipper. Sirius were also visible from Greece, and it's the brightest star visible from Earth (after the Sun, of course).
The 12 major constellations were chosen simply because they are on the ecliptic, where Sun appears to pass in front.

The lunar mansions were chosen by Chinese especially because the Moon appears to pass in front of them...

Edited by qrasy, 19 May 2009 - 10:21 AM.

[Freddy1]

36天罡 72地煞

36+72=108

Could you elaborate where does the 36 comes from? And where does the 72 comes from?

[qrasy]

There's actually 118 stars in 紫微斗數 according to http://www.azg168.cn...gxiang1066.html and it's obviously different from 36+72 stars (as used in 水滸傳)

I can find the complete names of 36+72 stars here:
http://guoxue.zynews.../2008/3061.html

According to http://zhidao.baidu....n/10484680.html it's from Taoist tradition about the stars around the North Dipper, but I find it difficult to find the information other that ones that relates to the novel(fiction) 水滸傳.

You can see the actual assignment of each star to each 水滸傳's 108 heroes in http://www.09dt.net/...I...=123&page=8

Edited by qrasy, 28 May 2009 - 11:06 PM.

[Freddy1]

There's actually 118 stars in 紫微斗數 according to http://www.azg168.cn...gxiang1066.html and it's obviously different from 36+72 stars (as used in 水滸傳)

Now the question is whats the significance of 118?

[qrasy]

Now the question is whats the significance of 118?

I think if we "union" the 108 and 118 together we may get more stars.
In any case, 紫微斗數 is used for divination (占卜) and not for anything related to worship. So I doubt there would be anything like "118 holy stars".
And then, as it's a divination using stars or constellations placed into 12 regions, it's called "astrology". (Indeed some of the 118 stars are constellations, not single stars; and then, as mentioned in a previous post, many of the stars were not even found in astronomy).

I'm not sure, though, what quality the 36+72 stars (36天罡72地煞) are believed to have.

p.s. FYI, when I searched for stars in 紫微斗數 as first I found some article listing 114 stars, and then after I added "一百零八" (which is assuming 108 stars), I found the link to the list of 118 stars.

Edited by qrasy, 02 June 2009 - 04:02 AM.

[Freddy1]

I think if we "union" the 108 and 118 together we may get more stars.
In any case, 紫微斗數 is used for divination (占卜) and not for anything related to worship. So I doubt there would be anything like "118 holy stars".
And then, as it's a divination using stars or constellations placed into 12 regions, it's called "astrology". (Indeed some of the 118 stars are constellations, not single stars; and then, as mentioned in a previous post, many of the stars were not even found in astronomy).

I'm not sure, though, what quality the 36+72 stars (36天罡72地煞) are believed to have.

p.s. FYI, when I searched for stars in 紫微斗數 as first I found some article listing 114 stars, and then after I added "一百零八" (which is assuming 108 stars), I found the link to the list of 118 stars.

Thanks Grasy. I appreciate your research and input.