35 replies to this topic

[ahxiang]

An army that can't hold it's territory is cracked. Those stragglers that did make it Burma never created more than a bandit kingdom holed up in the jungle.

You have no clue about how 1000 Chinese soldiers almost toppled Burmese government.

And you don't know why the United nations intervened for 6-8 years to get Taiwan recall the ROC troops from northern Burma.

[changsham]

1000 nearly toppled the Burmese Government? Well just goes to show that they were a bunch of marauding bandits, desperate, stateless and looking for easy prey. Sad to see what was left of "the Ironside Army and Army of Steel" eventually become a drug peddling bunch of jungle thugs. Although you seem to have an impressive body of knowledge and constantly talk up the KMT's "crack" military elan I find it hard to give any of your arguments any credibility. It seems every misfortune the KMT suffered was caused by someone else's back stabbing according to you. Be it Communists, bandits, traitors, students, professors, warlords, Russians, Americans, Japanese, French, British, League of Nations, United Nations and 'The Whole World". Such a fine force being so clueless they were tricked by everyone? You just have to face it. They were just pretenders for the Mandate of Heaven. Time to move on.

Edited by changsham, 21 February 2009 - 06:07 PM.

[MattW]

Just a reminder to Changsham and Ahxiang to keep things civil- there's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but it is important to respect the opinions of others. Thanks.

[ahxiang]

1000 nearly toppled the Burmese Government? Well just goes to show that they were a bunch of marauding bandits, desperate, stateless and looking for easy prey. Sad to see what was left of "the Ironside Army and Army of Steel" eventually become a drug peddling bunch of jungle thugs. Although you seem to have an impressive body of knowledge and constantly talk up the KMT's "crack" military elan I find it hard to give any of your arguments any credibility. It seems every misfortune the KMT suffered was caused by someone else's back stabbing according to you. Be it Communists, bandits, traitors, students, professors, warlords, Russians, Americans, Japanese, French, British, League of Nations, United Nations and 'The Whole World". Such a fine force being so clueless they were tricked by everyone? You just have to face it. They were just pretenders for the Mandate of Heaven. Time to move on.

I have seen posts of your nature on this board for many years.

In every post of yours, there was missing the basic information, i.e., what we call by facts - name, place, time and event.

To beef up your points, you better work on supplying the flesh - name, place, time and event - on the skeleton or bone.

There are important topics on "Chinese Civil Wars" on this bbs. Unfortunately, some people had bumped those topics to the end of pages and un-pinned those topics that the board owner had put there for years. I suggest that you spend some time reading those threads that deal with "Chinese Civil Wars" for deeper understanding of this topic. (Go click on page 4 and onward for topics related to civil wars.)

The 1000 soldiers were the initial group. Later, more soldiers joined in to expand it to 10,000-20,000, including the mountain tribesmen who were allies of Chinese since Sino-Japanese War. There were at least three major campaigns against Burmese government, with the initial war waged by 1000 soldiers, only. United Nations intervened to evacuate ROC troops by three batches. Those who refused to leave Burma had nominally severed relationship with Taiwan. The drug dealing was to do with this group of people who consisted of locals and mountain tribesmen. There are two volumes of Wellington Koo Memoirs dealing exclusively with Burma, ROC Troops and United Nations. If you browse TIME ONLINE, you might find writings about the war in northern Burma.

Edited by ahxiang, 21 February 2009 - 08:11 PM.

[Yun]

Unfortunately, some people had bumped those topics to the end of pages and un-pinned those topics that the board owner had put there for years.

There is no bumping involved. Threads find their way from page 1 to page 4 (and keep moving backwards after that) because no one continues posting on them. In the case of your Chinese Civil War thread, you simply stopped responding to MattW after insulting him as "hopelessly ignorant". If you had continued contributing to that thread, and had not insulted people to the point that they prefer not to have conversations with you, then there is no way it would not be on page 1 now, and if it were at the top of page 1, then there would be no reason to even pin it.

To show you what I mean, I am going to move that Civil War thread to the very front of page 1 now.

[ahxiang]

There is no bumping involved. Threads find their way from page 1 to page 4 (and keep moving backwards after that) because no one continues posting on them. In the case of your Chinese Civil War thread, you simply stopped responding to MattW after insulting him as "hopelessly ignorant". If you had continued contributing to that thread, and had not insulted people to the point that they prefer not to have conversations with you, then there is no way it would not be on page 1 now, and if it were at the top of page 1, then there would be no reason to even pin it.

To show you what I mean, I am going to move that Civil War thread to the very front of page 1 now.

MattW actually was one of two, with another poster "MANGUO", who bumped the topics to page 4 and later by repeatedly posting replies to topics now showing up from page 2 to page 4. He also unpinned the topics on civil wars that Zhao Yun put there for 3-5 years. I was courteous enough not to name his name in last post.

[Yun]

with another poster "MANGUO", who bumped the topics to page 4 and later by repeatedly posting replies to topics now showing up from page 2 to page 4.

Don't blame other people for your inability to keep a thread discussion going. If Manguo didn't want to post a reply to your topic, one can only guess why.

He also unpinned the topics on civil wars that Zhao Yun put there for 3-5 years.

Who did? Manguo or MattW?

[ahxiang]

Don't blame other people for your inability to keep a thread discussion going. If Manguo didn't want to post a reply to your topic, one can only guess why.



Who did? Manguo or MattW?

Mangguo was probably already banned as a "spammer". MattW unpinned the civil war topics, and replaced them with some topics on Mao that did not show too many replies.

Edited by ahxiang, 21 February 2009 - 08:55 PM.

[Yun]

Manguo was not and is not a spammer. He was never banned, all his posts have been constructive, and he last made a post earlier this month and last visited CHF yesterday.

As for MattW, he can explain his actions for himself, but I would like to point out that his choice of which topics to pin need not be based mainly on how many replies they got. Nor is it self-evident that a topic pinned for 3-5 years (whether by GZ or by anyone else) should therefore be pinned forever.

[MattW]

I would just like to say here that i tend to pin topics that have been active recently, in order to try and facilitate the development of discussions further on these topics.

[LongMa]

I mentioned somewhere that the Comintern-hajiacked US State Department had issued visas to Tibetans before the fall of China and Chungking to make sure that the Tibetans would declare independence so that Chiang had no chance to retreat to Tibet for further resistance to the communist army.

In several places, the US State Department officials commented that communist army should attack Taiwan first before attacking Southwest CHina.

Why?

They were eager to see the earliest downfall of Chiang Kai-shek and ROC.

Unfortunately, Mao Tse-tung missed the tip from the Americans.

What was the motive for the American government wanting China to fall into the Soviet Sphere when the Cold War was starting up full steam? That makes little sense to me. We beefed up Japan after WWII, with the specific aim of stopping it from turning communist as labor union protest (many of whom were overt communist) were high.

Also, after Mao took over China, he actually asked American for assistance and America refused him.

Are you implying that America was no fan of Chiang Kai-Shek (Jiang Jieshi) or they wanted the complete downfall of the KMT? IF so why would they want the KMT to fall with the only substitute being the CCP?

[ahxiang]

What was the motive for the American government wanting China to fall into the Soviet Sphere when the Cold War was starting up full steam? That makes little sense to me. We beefed up Japan after WWII, with the specific aim of stopping it from turning communist as labor union protest (many of whom were overt communist) were high.

Also, after Mao took over China, he actually asked American for assistance and America refused him.

Are you implying that America was no fan of Chiang Kai-Shek (Jiang Jieshi) or they wanted the complete downfall of the KMT? IF so why would they want the KMT to fall with the only substitute being the CCP?

Longma, what you have is a situation where the traitors of America, i.e., Russian agents - who shared the same office as Chinese communists from Qinghua University Class 1924-1925 - at the Institute of pacific Research - had completely hijacked the US State Department and Treasury Department. Please check VENONA for reference on this topic.

To justify the rise of Mao, Owne Lattimore was talking about Mao being Tito on daily basis from 1948 to 1949. If you want an analogy, this Owen Lattimore guy was talking down Chiang kai-shek in a same fashion as today's Dr. Doom, Roubini of New York University, talking down US banks. Two assistants of Owen Lattimore who had an office in State Department were Chinese communist agents who joined CPUSA since mid-1920s.

Edited by ahxiang, 23 February 2009 - 01:39 AM.

[changsham]

Very serious accusation to claim there were two Chinese CP agents in the State Department. How do you know they were agents for China? What are their names, details and positions? What secrets did they steal and what eventually happened to them. Were they ever charged and convicted of spying? What proof do you have they joined the CPUSA. Is it hearsay, something you read in a book, and can you provide their membership numbers and date of joining? In what way were they assistants to Lattimore? Were they on the list of 57 Communist sympathisers believed to be in the State Department compiled by Senator McCarthy? None of whom were proven to be spies. As I recall John Paton Davies was under scrutiny as being an agent for China but later his loyalty was cleared. If you are going to make this kind of statement then show us the proof and facts.

Edited by changsham, 23 February 2009 - 05:51 PM.

[changsham]

Longma, what you have is a situation where the traitors of America, i.e., Russian agents - who shared the same office as Chinese communists from Qinghua University Class 1924-1925 - at the Institute of pacific Research - had completely hijacked the US State Department and Treasury Department. Please check VENONA for reference on this topic.

To justify the rise of Mao, Owne Lattimore was talking about Mao being Tito on daily basis from 1948 to 1949. If you want an analogy, this Owen Lattimore guy was talking down Chiang kai-shek in a same fashion as today's Dr. Doom, Roubini of New York University, talking down US banks. Two assistants of Owen Lattimore who had an office in State Department were Chinese communist agents who joined CPUSA since mid-1920s.

Just in case it gets edited out.

[ahxiang]

Very serious accusation to claim there were two Chinese CP agents in the State Department. How do you know they were agents for China? What are their names, details and positions? What secrets did they steal and what eventually happened to them. Were they ever charged and convicted of spying? What proof do you have they joined the CPUSA. Is it hearsay, something you read in a book, and can you provide their membership numbers and date of joining? In what way were they assistants to Lattimore? Were they on the list of 57 Communist sympathisers believed to be in the State Department compiled by Senator McCarthy? None of whom were proven to be spies. As I recall John Paton Davies was under scrutiny as being an agent for China but later his loyalty was cleared. If you are going to make this kind of statement then show us the proof and facts.

I don't know where you were from, and it seems you were picking fights without first brain-storming yourself with necessary knowledge for at least some minimal common language or commonly-known terms to continue a civil dialogue between you and me. Please do some reading of Edward C. Carter, Owen Lattimore, Asiaticus, Han-seng and Chi Chao-ting, as well as Chi's American wife before I am to continue further with you.