18 replies to this topic

[Jinkst]

In 1219 Qiu Chuji one of Seven immortals received a letter from Genghis Khan. He then journeyed west to meet with the Mongols and establish a good relationship with his sect and the Mongols. I heard that the letter was preserved very well has been translated and is floating around where anyone can read it. The great khan seems to show another side of himself in the letter from what I heard. I been looking around every where for the past 2 weeks for a translation of this letter hopefully in english. If anyone know any resources where I can narrow down my search or maybe the letter itself would be super awesome. Please and thanks!! (Again, sorry if the thread might be not in the right subforum)

[Samuka]

try this

http://depts.washing.../changchun.html

[General_Zhaoyun]

I've been reading that Genghis Khan was very much influenced by Qiu Chuji 丘处机 (also known as Chang Chun 長春）, a Daoist priest of Quanzhen Sect 全真教, esp. when Qiu taught Genghis Khan about Daoist doctrine of "no killing", revere the heaven and love the people with pure heart. Eventually, Genghis Khan seemed to be influenced by him and spared the lifes of many people in central Asia during his conquest.

There are some sites that even say Genghis Khan was a scholar of Daoism. Was this true?

Was Genghis Khan a Daoist ? Was he highly influenced by Daoist religion?

Edited by General_Zhaoyun, 19 February 2009 - 02:18 AM.

[Yun]

Eventually, Genghis Khan seemed to be influenced by him and spared the lifes of many people in central Asia during his conquest.

Actually, the Mongol conquest of Central Asia (the Khwarezmian empire) was already completed with great bloodshed in 1221, before Genghis Khan met Qiu Chuji in the Hindu Kush mountains in the spring of 1222.

I doubt that Genghis Khan was so influenced by Qiu Chuji that from that point on until his death in 1227, he significantly changed his style of making war or even took any time out to study the Daoist scriptures. Certainly the Quanzhen sect later sought to promote its own prestige by emphasizing that Qiu Chuji's meeting with Genghis Khan led to the saving of many lives, but I certainly do not see any historical evidence of this. The great massacre of the Western Xia capital at the time of Genghis Khan's death suggests that he never changed his ways.

PS. I have merged an earlier thread with this one.

[William O'Chee]

At what point did Genghiz Khan start to take an interest in history, and also order the compilation and classification of the law?

Is this perhaps evidence of an understanding of the importance of study to achieve an understanding of the way?

[Zorigo]

In 1219 Qiu Chuji one of Seven immortals received a letter from Genghis Khan. He then journeyed west to meet with the Mongols and establish a good relationship with his sect and the Mongols. I heard that the letter was preserved very well has been translated and is floating around where anyone can read it.

http://www.mongolnew...dur.php?n=35217

Mongolian newspaper (2009-Feb-09) says that some Mongolians visited the Daoist Temple in southwestern part of Beijing. The Temple name is White Cloud Temple (I literally translated)

Historian P. Delgerjargal and translator Ya. Ganbaatar talked with Daoist monk Li Shin Zun (name as pronounced in Mongolian) who is from temple museum office.

Q-We heard that Letter of Chinggis Khaan is still kept ( in the temple)

A- Yes, There are 2 letters of Chinggis Khaan.

Q- Is it original?

A- Yes

Q- in Mongolian script?

A- Yes, There are 2 original letters in Mongolian script. One is invitation letter of Chinggis Khaan for Chan Chung bumba (probably Qiu Chuji 's name name in Mongolian) , other is letter about this temple (guarantee of the temple) . Those letters are registered as number one (level-1) important historical document of China.

Q- Do both letters have seal?

A- Yes . both have seal

Q- We would like to see the letters. Would you help us

A- It is not possible for now. The letters are under special protection (order). It requires to have many permission in order to show. Also some of the temple buildings are under repair. When it finishes, we will display some rare document. At that time, you are welcome to see the documents...
------------------------------------------------------------

Is it really true that the original letter exists in Beijing , not in Taiwan where Chang Kai Shi took all documents to?
Is there any photo or copy of the letters?

Edited by Zorigo, 19 February 2009 - 09:05 AM.

[Freddy1]

From what I understand Genghis Khan became latter more lax with all religions.
Thats probably why many Mongols latter embraced Buddhism. From what I read on some wesite a year ago Genghis Khan did invite a Taoist (maybe it was Chang Chun?) to his palace because he had an interest in extending his life or immortality secrets.





Human rights and freedoms

Genghis Khan did not grant his people the basic human rights and freedoms that we Americans enjoy and Mongolians prize so highly. But he did allow a certain amount of freedom of speech or he never would have figured out who the Wise Men were!

He also championed freedom of religion. Although he himself practiced shamanism, he believed that the other religions of the region–Nestorian Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, and Islam–had merit and should be tolerated. He declared that all religions should be respected and that none should be elevated above the others.23
source: http://www.mongolia-...ghis-khan2.html

[Freddy1]

Quanzhen Sect 全真教, ....

Is there any information about this Taoist sect? What kind of Taoism do they practice? (like alchemy, Mou shan magic???, ceremonial Taoism? etc.)

[General_Zhaoyun]

Is there any information about this Taoist sect? What kind of Taoism do they practice? (like alchemy, Mou shan magic???, ceremonial Taoism? etc.)

Refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanzhen for more info.

I don't think they practise any form of taoist magic. But rather they specializes in the process of "alchemy within the body" or Neidan 内丹(internal alchemy), as opposed to Waidan 外丹 (external alchemy which experiments with the ingestion of herbs and minerals, etc). The Waidan tradition has been largely replaced by Neidan, as Waidan was a dangerous and often lethal pursuit. Quanzhen focuses on internal cultivation of the person which is consistent with the pervading Taoist belief of wu wei 无为, which is essentially "action through inaction."

Edited by General_Zhaoyun, 23 February 2009 - 11:46 PM.

[Freddy1]

Thanks GZ! Their history is very interesting.

I wonder if there were other neidan (internal alchemy) sects besides the Quanzhen Sect?

Edited by Freddy1, 24 February 2009 - 05:07 PM.

[Yun]

Those interested in the early history of Quanzhen may want to find this recent book:
http://books.google....id=vFBy3cvteTQC

My main peeve about the book is that the author seems to take a very uncritical view of the reliability as historical sources of the Quanzhen texts regarding the early masters, despite their heavily hagiographical nature.

[Freddy1]

Those interested in the early history of Quanzhen may want to find this recent book:
http://books.google....id=vFBy3cvteTQC

My main peeve about the book is that the author seems to take a very uncritical view of the reliability as historical sources of the Quanzhen texts regarding the early masters, despite their heavily hagiographical nature.

Hey thanks Yun!

[harandaa]

From what I understand Genghis Khan became latter more lax with all religions.
Thats probably why many Mongols latter embraced Buddhism. From what I read on some wesite a year ago Genghis Khan did invite a Taoist (maybe it was Chang Chun?) to his palace because he had an interest in extending his life or immortality secrets.


Human rights and freedoms

Genghis Khan did not grant his people the basic human rights and freedoms that we Americans enjoy and Mongolians prize so highly. But he did allow a certain amount of freedom of speech or he never would have figured out who the Wise Men were!

He also championed freedom of religion. Although he himself practiced shamanism, he believed that the other religions of the region–Nestorian Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, and Islam–had merit and should be tolerated. He declared that all religions should be respected and that none should be elevated above the others.23
source: http://www.mongolia-...ghis-khan2.html

I think you're probably right in concluding that Chinggis was interested in the practical benefits that might come from the patronage of individuals, and to a lesser degree, sects, that he identified as holy. Such patronage could ensure that prayers were made in his name to reinforce the link of his polity and authority with heaven - it could, of course, also help to smooth relations with conquered populations. On this, see:


Atwood, Christopher P. (2004), "Validation by Holiness or Sovereignty: Religious Toleration as Political Theology in the Mongol World Empire of the Thirteenth Century", The International History Review, 26: 237-256.
Available via JSTOR here


Jackson, Peter (2005), “The Mongols and the Faith of the Conquered,” in Amitai, Reuven and Michal Biran (eds), Mongols, Turks, and Others: Eurasian Nomads and the Sedentary World, Leiden, Brill: pp. 245–90.

[ladyanna]

I have found parts of the dialogue between Qiu and Chinggis: 玄风庆会录.  玄风庆会录.doc   34.5K   2 downloads

[ladyanna]

Is there anyone can give me more information about Genghis Khan and is religion? Above all about his relationship with Qiu Chuji...Thanks