15 replies to this topic

[chaoxian2009]

Most Chinese people consider the Tang Dynasty to be the greatest. But it seems like a lot of its culture hasn't been preserved. Was the Tang society considered more liberal? Why? And what about aesthetics and arts. To me, art at that time was a lot more conservative. The architecture was simple(maybe because of its time) compared to that of other eras but to me, it's way more elegant. And what about music? Did chinese court music "yayue" originate from that era? If Japanese music came from Tang music, was it more somber than the usual traditional music we hear today? And most important, why isn't Tang culture more prominent than it is today?

[General_Zhaoyun]

A lot of Tang culture were preserved in Japanese Culture. If you want to know what Tang architecture looks like, you can check out the Japanese Architecture, which was highly influenced by Tang culture.

[Confucius]

Yes, the best preserved Tang Culture/Architecture would definitely be Japan; however, I find the Ming architecture more appealing. The Tang society is considered one of the most if not the most liberal society out of all the Chinese dynasties. As for Yayue, I believe it originates sometime during the warring states era or before? I am not too sure actually, but I am certain that the origin of yayue is before the Tang era though.Why isn't Tang culture prominent? I would like to know too. Would some one here tell us why?Also, this topic is on the wrong section.

Edited by Confucius, 03 March 2009 - 11:09 PM.

[JThunder]

Someone mentioned on another thread that later dynasties such as the Song and Ming did not consider the Tang to be the height of Chinese civilisation. In fact they attributed its eventual downfall to the dynasty's openness to foreign influence. In the eyes of the later dynasties, the Tang should never have tried to govern areas further up the Silk Road or trusted non-Chinese "barbarians" with positions in the government and military. In their minds events such as the An Lushan rebellion were direct consequences of those policies.

[Yun]

Someone mentioned on another thread that later dynasties such as the Song and Ming did not consider the Tang to be the height of Chinese civilisation.

That was me:
http://www.chinahist...p...t&p=4965896

Thanks for remembering what I wrote

[skanner]

A lot of Tang culture were preserved in Japanese Culture. If you want to know what Tang architecture looks like, you can check out the Japanese Architecture, which was highly influenced by Tang culture.

Hmm. I recently read Ivan Morris's "The World of the Shining Prince", a book a bout the Heian Period in Japan and specifically the era that "Genji Monogatari"/"The Tale of Genji" was set and written during. According to Morris, Japanese has tended to be somewhat more austure and less sumptuous than that of China. This is, at least according to what I read, a reflection of the general tend to adapt the revered Chinese institutions to existing Japanese culture. I'm not exactly an expert [/understatement], but I'd say that Heian culture (and it's important here to distinguish between periods within Japanese as well as Chinese history) reflected Tang culture, but did not preserve it.

(There are, of course, exceptions to all this. My high school Japanese teacher could read Chinese characters from this era, for example.)

[Chen06]

architecture wise, Japanese architecture(exterior wise) very much preserves Tang Chinese architecture. Its almost identical.

[skanner]

*head scratch* Are you looking at the Heian period? What's your source?

[Chen06]

I just meant in general.... if you look at examples of Tang architecture(surviving ones) and in paintings, you can easily tell the influence that it had on Japanese architecture. Apparently, alot of the architecture in modern Nara has preserved many aspects of Tang Chinese architecture

[skanner]

Oh! Sorry, I thought you were saying that there was some sort of carbon-copy thing going on. Yeah, there's definitely a strong influence, and many aspects have been preserved. It's just important not to assume that you could transplant a building from one to the other and no one would notice.

[Chen06]

Oh! Sorry, I thought you were saying that there was some sort of carbon-copy thing going on. Yeah, there's definitely a strong influence, and many aspects have been preserved. It's just important not to assume that you could transplant a building from one to the other and no one would notice.

Anyhow, the architecture in modern Nara is probably the closest thing you are going to get to Tang Dynasty architecture anywhere. Most of the Tang architecture in modern China is already gone. I suppose there may be a few surviving examples but surely not many. Funny how you have to go to Japan to see older forms of Chinese architectural style. Its actually kind of sad really

[Confucius]

Anyhow, the architecture in modern Nara is probably the closest thing you are going to get to Tang Dynasty architecture anywhere. Most of the Tang architecture in modern China is already gone. I suppose there may be a few surviving examples but surely not many. Funny how you have to go to Japan to see older forms of Chinese architectural style. Its actually kind of sad really

I wouldn't say its "sad" really. There were several reasons why China could not preserve a certain aspect of its culture. If you look at China geographically, it is situated near other countries, which means that China got influenced by them. ie. Mongols. Japan is an island isolated from other countries, so this gives them an advantage in terms of preserving its culture. China had to fight countless wars against many foreign countries before(well at least way more than Japan), and don't forget the Cultural Revolution. The fact that China couldn't preserve some of its culture does not have anything to do with its "people". Its more of a political/geographical situation that caused this.

Edited by Confucius, 06 April 2009 - 07:46 PM.

[TiYiJian]

Indeed it's very interesting knowing that that kind of architecture came from China. It shows how much influence China had on that country, in every aspect of their culture. Just think about Okinawa, that is culturally even closer to China than to Japan. Okinawan food is very similar to that of some regions of Zhejian of the past times (pre industrialization of China). Although most people don't know much about the cultural dependence of countries like Korea and Japan from China.
It would be nice to see a new China that gets back her past role of leading nation and see again such countries follow her and copy from her.

[xat]

Tang Dynasty's culture - a world-leading position at that time, the cultural exchange is very frequent with many other countries. North Koreaand Japan sent many students to Chang'an to study. Tang poems can be considered to be the most remarkable literary achievements of the Tang Dynasty . Since Chen Zi-ang and "Chutangsijie", the Tang Dynasty poet after another, during the Tang Dynasty poets Li Bai, Du Fu, Cen Shen, Wang Wei, the Tang period, Li He, Han Yu, Bai Ju-yi, the late Tang period, Li Shang-yin, Du Mu is one of the few representing. Their poems were various styles , some poems are detailed descriptions of real life,and others are full of imagination about the world . There are passionate strains of Frontier Poems , as well as delightful pastoral poetry. These poems together constitute the achievements of an outstanding representative of Chinese literature.
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http://world-culture...g/c.asp?d=15268 china ancient poet--Libai

Edited by xat, 11 December 2009 - 01:09 AM.

[Huseng]

Most Chinese people consider the Tang Dynasty to be the greatest. But it seems like a lot of its culture hasn't been preserved.

I think a lot of the Buddhist culture has been preserved in Korea and Japan. It was monks like Uisang, Seungjang, Kukai, Saicho and Ennin who went to China and brought back scriptures, art and a lot of other cultural assets that might have been lost in China, but remain preserved elsewhere.

However, the Buddhist culture in the Tang dynasty was by no means a golden age as some assume it to be. There was a lot of corruption as ordination certificates were literally bought and sold as having one excused one from mandatory labour and taxation.

Here is a quote from the 7th century Vinaya master Daoxuan:


《四分律刪繁補闕行事鈔》卷2：「今時不知教者。多自毀傷云。此戒律所禁止。是聲聞之法。於我大乘棄同糞土。猶如黃葉木牛木馬誑止小兒。此之戒法亦復如是。誑汝聲聞子也。」(CBETA, T40, no. 1804, p. 49, b27-c1)

In present times many of those who do not know the teachings destroy and injure themselves saying,"What this Vinaya prohibits is a śrāvaka teaching. For our Mahāyāna we toss it away just like dirty soil. Just like yellow leaves, a wooden cow or a wooden horse deceive a little child, these precept teachings are like this. They deceive you little śrāvaka!"

Basically, in the ivory towers of Buddhist intelligentsia things were generally fine, but on the ground, so to speak, there was a lot of corruption and it eventually resulted in the great suppression in 845CE.

If you want to read a personal and touching account of the Tang empire from a period source I suggest Ennin's journal which available here in full (the coding is JTF I think and not Chinese encoding):

http://www.chohoji.o...‚‹�–@�„—ç‹L(“ú–

One interesting thing to note is that people like Ennin wandered around China at the time without that much trouble. He needed state permission to go from place to place, but it was relatively safe and despite his concerns of getting robbed a few times, the countryside sounds like it was quite stable and safe during the time he went (mid 9th century).

Edited by Huseng, 14 June 2010 - 02:26 AM.