30 replies to this topic

[大泽升龙]

I suspect both Chinas were reluctant to boost itself as a real winner of the war then though both claimed major contribution to the winning.

[ahxiang]

I suspect both Chinas were reluctant to boost itself as a real winner of the war then though both claimed major contribution to the winning.

ROC had all kinds of days, including WWII victory memorial day.

PRC, since it negated ROC, would not treat ROC's victory as legitimate, and hence overturned all those days.

[Optimus]

PRC made only a minor contribution toward WWII and so they wouldn't like to talk too much about it let alone a victory day in mainland.

It's pointless for ROC to celebrate WWII victory when the mainland that they defended during WWII have been lost 60 years ago.

and the leader of the chinese nation in WWII Generalissimo Chiang is still unburied in Taipei.
No matter what, history has it's truths, you can't deny a man his legacy. Chiang led the nation to resist the Japanese from 1937 to the eventual Japanese surrender in 1945. That is his legacy.

Edited by Optimus, 09 May 2009 - 01:38 AM.

[Moping4U]

Its a injustice that ROC troops weren't given the proper honor and recognition for the War of Resistance simply because of political reasons. Everyone back then fought under that one flag, it should be allowed to mean something. There were the true heroes of modern China, defending their homeland against invasion and aggression. Over in Japan, they're allow to celebrate collectively even rapists, murderers, war criminals included in the Yasukuni shrine.

[ZhongYuan]

I'm not sure about ROC, but I'm going to say for the PRC; let's face it, you were peasant guerrilla force.
The CCP would have only done minimal to fight Japanese, however you can't blame them, the CCP was just like you and me, you can't expect peasants to defeat Japanese alone while government does nothing. The CCP gave their everything though, I feel it would be no exaggeration to say so. However same cannot be said for Jiang's forces

[Optimus]

I'm not sure about ROC, but I'm going to say for the PRC; let's face it, you were peasant guerrilla force.
The CCP would have only done minimal to fight Japanese, however you can't blame them, the CCP was just like you and me, you can't expect peasants to defeat Japanese alone while government does nothing. The CCP gave their everything though, I feel it would be no exaggeration to say so. However same cannot be said for Jiang's forces

The nationalist and coalition forces fought a very flawed war during WWII.

It is true that CCP would have only done minimal to fight Japanese, But It is really an exaggeration to say that CCP gave their everything though.

[Moping4U]

I'm not sure about ROC, but I'm going to say for the PRC; let's face it, you were peasant guerrilla force.
The CCP would have only done minimal to fight Japanese, however you can't blame them, the CCP was just like you and me, you can't expect peasants to defeat Japanese alone while government does nothing. The CCP gave their everything though, I feel it would be no exaggeration to say so. However same cannot be said for Jiang's forces

On the contrary its the opposite. CCP didn't give their everything and ROC did alot more than credit given to. The CCP strategy after the failed Hundred Regiments campaign was to conserve and expand while limiting engagements against Japanese and puppet forces. ROC on the otherhand threw in almost everything in the early years of the war, including their best forces and lost most of it. Their air force and armor was repeatedly destroyed and rebuilt. Despite the lack in artillery, armor, air force, navy, as well in supply of small arms/ammunition, medical care, etc. the Chinese army still gave the Japanese hell. ROC fought both conventional battles on the front lines and guerrilla engagements behind enemy lines. Its true towards the latter half when US entered the war, the ROC also tried to conserve, but they fought bitterly throughout all 8 years of it. Could the Nationalists done better in the war, they definitely could've. But without the Japanese invasion, you think the CCP can win so easily during the Civil War?

[Optimus]

It would be easier for CCP to credit KMT WWII contributions in mainland if KMT had been totally destroyed long ago. But the fact remain, ROC still existed on Taiwan and will celebrate it's 100th year in 2011. CCP can't talk about WWII without talking about KMT and eventually ROC and finally what CCP did during that era which will prove to be embarrassing and one can't lie about history either.

Have the Chinese govt ever admitted in official press release that KMT did the much bigger majority of fighting during WWII. All I read was - we thank KMT for fighting alongside CCP to resist the Japanese and protect the motherland during WWII. The statement sound like the nationalists was a junior partner in WWII where actually nationalists and allies did 85% of fighting, communists 15%.

[ahxiang]

It would be easier for CCP to credit KMT WWII contributions in mainland if KMT had been totally destroyed long ago. But the fact remain, ROC still existed on Taiwan and will celebrate it's 100th year in 2011. CCP can't talk about WWII without talking about KMT and eventually ROC and finally what CCP did during that era which will prove to be embarrassing and one can't lie about history either.

Have the Chinese govt ever admitted in official press release that KMT did the much bigger majority of fighting during WWII. All I read was - we thank KMT for fighting alongside CCP to resist the Japanese and protect the motherland during WWII. The statement sound like the nationalists was a junior partner in WWII where actually nationalists and allies did 85% of fighting, communists 15%.

Taiwan could have used the leverage of 'unification' to force the PRC into a change of "political" policies and a re-assessment of "historical" records.

The key here would be to properly distinguish between the interests of China versus the interests of the Soviet Russia. It was not difficult to make an objective judgment on the past since people had no dispute about the FLIP-FLOP of Stalin's orders and policies. The FLIP-FLOP applied to the CCP as well - since it was a branch subordinate to the Comintern and had to observe the FLIP-FLOP policies.

WWII was a result of Lenin and Stalin's egregious policies to Sovietize China, which began no later than the time period of 1922-1923 Washington Conference. Soviets launched an Oriental "Washington Conference" to counter the Washington's Washington Conference which was more to do with appeasing the Soviets, namely, pressuring Japan into withdrawal from the Soviet Far East etc. The Soviet-Japanese rivalries led to the imbalance of power structure in Manchuria and the 1931 Japanese invasion of Manchuria. Subsequently, Soviet policies were to ignite a war between Japan and ROC, which they pulled off after repeatedly assassinating Japanese sailors, marines and nationals in Central/Southern China as well as blowing up Japanese weapons depots and railways in Northern China and Manchuria.

[Moping4U]

The key here would be to properly distinguish between the interests of China versus the interests of the Soviet Russia. It was not difficult to make an objective judgment on the past since people had no dispute about the FLIP-FLOP of Stalin's orders and policies. The FLIP-FLOP applied to the CCP as well - since it was a branch subordinate to the Comintern and had to observe the FLIP-FLOP policies.

WWII was a result of Lenin and Stalin's egregious policies to Sovietize China, which began no later than the time period of 1922-1923 Washington Conference. Soviets launched an Oriental "Washington Conference" to counter the Washington's Washington Conference which was more to do with appeasing the Soviets, namely, pressuring Japan into withdrawal from the Soviet Far East etc. The Soviet-Japanese rivalries led to the imbalance of power structure in Manchuria and the 1931 Japanese invasion of Manchuria. Subsequently, Soviet policies were to ignite a war between Japan and ROC, which they pulled off after repeatedly assassinating Japanese sailors, marines and nationals in Central/Southern China as well as blowing up Japanese weapons depots and railways in Northern China and Manchuria.

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You always do this, just what the hell are you talking about? This thread was about ROC/PLA resistance war veteran appreciation/merit. Not Soviet conspiracy propaganda BS that nobody else wants to hear.

Edited by Moping4U, 12 May 2009 - 12:43 AM.

[ahxiang]

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You always do this, just what the hell are you talking about? This thread was about ROC/PLA resistance war veteran appreciation/merit. Not Soviet conspiracy propaganda BS that nobody else wants to hear.

Wow, what an angry man here. Let me tell you the linkage here. The topic here is why there is no memorial day in PRC for the victory of WWII. And we discussed who contributed to what during the war, and why someone did not want to talk about the contribution or forged the records. Now, the key here is that if someone actually started the war, why would that person want to make a noise about it. They want to keep it quite. That's why there was no memorial day.

[Optimus]

Wow, what an angry man here. Let me tell you the linkage here. The topic here is why there is no memorial day in PRC for the victory of WWII. And we discussed who contributed to what during the war, and why someone did not want to talk about the contribution or forged the records. Now, the key here is that if someone actually started the war, why would that person want to make a noise about it. They want to keep it quite. That's why there was no memorial day.

I thought CCP are too ashamed to admit their minor contributions to WWII but always forget about the Soviet-CCP linkup play in China back then.

The CCP skeletons from the closets are really too embarrassing and disgraceful.

Edited by Optimus, 12 May 2009 - 03:34 PM.

[ahxiang]

I thought CCP are too ashamed to admit their minor contributions to WWII but always forget about the Soviet-CCP linkup play in China back then.

The CCP skeletons from the closets are really too embarrassing and disgraceful.

I appreciate your intuition into what I wrote here. I recall quite a few good postings of yours. I do not have any impression about MOPING's perspectives and standgrounds till he replied to my post yesterday, though he had been a member here for some years.

I was wrapping up China's Air Battles during WWII. Just came across this writing on Ace Liu Cuigang by Tao Hengsheng.
空戰英雄劉粹剛的生死戀

- 陶恒生 -
http://www.hstao.com/haiyu/HY22FR.htm

If I was not mistaken, Tao Hengsheng was son of the characters in Gao-Tao Incident, which exposed Wang CHing-wei's treacheries.

In the writing, Tao mentioned that Liu Cuigang at one time lived close to Liu Yifu in Nanchang.

婚後不久，粹剛隨部隊遷往南昌，編入教導總隊。小兩口住在新建的住宅區，與陳恩偉、賴遜岩、毛邦初、王遠波、方正裕、劉興亞（即名戰地記者劉毅夫）等人住得很近。駐南昌雲浦機場的的空軍為第三、第四、第五三個驅逐大隊，駐老機場的是第二轟炸大隊。

See how China's flowers had sacrificed so much for nothing.


Correction:

I mistook Liu Yifu as the GRU agent Yu Yifu. Thought Tao Hengsheng did not know is that the Yifu guy was one of the top 100+ Chinese GRU agents who provoked the Sino-Japanese War. It was my mistake. The GRU agent was 于毅夫

Edited by ahxiang, 13 May 2009 - 01:13 AM.

[ahxiang]

It would be easier for CCP to credit KMT WWII contributions in mainland if KMT had been totally destroyed long ago. But the fact remain, ROC still existed on Taiwan and will celebrate it's 100th year in 2011. CCP can't talk about WWII without talking about KMT and eventually ROC and finally what CCP did during that era which will prove to be embarrassing and one can't lie about history either.

Have the Chinese govt ever admitted in official press release that KMT did the much bigger majority of fighting during WWII. All I read was - we thank KMT for fighting alongside CCP to resist the Japanese and protect the motherland during WWII. The statement sound like the nationalists was a junior partner in WWII where actually nationalists and allies did 85% of fighting, communists 15%.

I have found evidence of Chinese Communist agents penetrating into Zhang Qingyu and Zhang Yantian's security forces which were responsible for massacring 260 Japanese at Tongzhou on July 29, 1937.

[animerlot]

When the Qing dynasty ended, the empire age ended, the people could not happy yet, because there were many intruders, British, USA, Germany, Japan etc.

When WWII ended, the people could not happy yet, because the ROC is corrupt, incapability etc, the people can not see their future.

When PRC built in 1949, the people see the future, they love their country, devote themselves into the national construct.

They all think the day of Oct 1, 1949 is the victory day. It's just so simple.