32 replies to this topic

[oldbreadstinks]

Some time ago I offered to do an analysis of the posting patterns of inactive members, if someone can provide that information to me, I would be happy to do the task as promised.

i visit CHF almost every night to read new posts, but have rarely posted because my knowledge is poor where chinese history is concerned. its pretty daunting to post anything when you see what the rest post. and previously when i asked a question i was thinking about, the first few replies were pretty rude, and arrogant enough to make further posting uncomfortable.

[Kenshinng]

i visit CHF almost every night to read new posts, but have rarely posted because my knowledge is poor where chinese history is concerned. its pretty daunting to post anything when you see what the rest post. and previously when i asked a question i was thinking about, the first few replies were pretty rude, and arrogant enough to make further posting uncomfortable.

Please don't feel discouraged to post! Not everyone will reply to you rudely and there are a lot of helpful people out there too. This is a place where beginners and experts all can congregate and exchange views. In fact there was this thread where you could ask any question and we would answer it for you if we could

Go to this thread and ask questions if you want

http://www.chinahist...showtopic=12484

[tealeaf]

If there is something you think we can do better, i am sure that your opinion would be carefully considered. Please feel free to give us your suggestions. We want this to be an open and stimulating environment.

While I strongly approve of analysing the forum's strengths and weaknesses, I think that it would be much better for an outsider to do it. There's a huge list of positives there, and only a few minor weak points! With all due respect, it does read more like a list of why CHF is great, with a few token flaws listed for balance. Having said that, I do think that CHF is very good and I really do think it's commendable to take the step of self-analysis.

One point I'd like to mention, as someone who still feels quite like an outsider, is listed under strengths: "Excellent moderation and organization of forums."

I would agree that the moderation here does seem very good. I would not characterize the organization of forums as "excellent", however. The forums are certainly organized into a wide range of topics, and if that's what's meant by "organization of forums" then I would agree. However in terms of access to the wealth of information here, the forums are an impenetrable maze. I've been visiting this forum relatively often for probably a year now and still feel like a total beginner because the structure of the forum is simply too large and unwieldy for me to grasp. I think that this feature isn't noted by the older members, because they have a deep knowledge of the forum and where to find the information they need.

A lot of information is buried in old topics, many of which stretch to several pages of discussion. Actually finding that information is very difficult. This tends to stifle, in my opinion, newcomers from taking part and asking questions because they dread the "this was already answered four years ago in thread <x>". Older users do seem very helpful in pointing newcomers to these old threads, but it's a shame that this sort of service is required.

I suggested some time ago, in another thread, that a wiki approach to some of the frequently-requested information found in the forums could be adopted. There were some very negative reactions to that, and I accept that the consensus is for this to be purely a forum without trying to become something else. Nevertheless, I think that some form of extra organization or "reference" forums that link to other threads is necessary to prevent users spending fruitless hours digging in old threads for snippets of information. I personally think that this would contribute greatly to encouraging new users to keep coming back to the site.

I'm not sure if this is asking too much, but it would also be amazing to see some kind of email "keyword notification" available on the site. I was trying to follow the weekly poem translations, but can only follow each thread as it appears. Sometimes I miss it, and so have to keep checking back in case a new thread has been posted. It would be fantastic if there were some way to add a filter that says "email me when this word/phrase appears in a thread". It would be yet another way to manage the flood of information here, and would bring me back to the site more often.

Just some comments and suggestions! The last is a bit far-fetched, I know, but I think that a more approachable way to access information here is increasingly necessary in order to retain new users.

[William O'Chee]

I suggested some time ago, in another thread, that a wiki approach to some of the frequently-requested information found in the forums could be adopted. There were some very negative reactions to that, and I accept that the consensus is for this to be purely a forum without trying to become something else. Nevertheless, I think that some form of extra organization or "reference" forums that link to other threads is necessary to prevent users spending fruitless hours digging in old threads for snippets of information. I personally think that this would contribute greatly to encouraging new users to keep coming back to the site.

First of all, thanks for taking the time to give such a considered opinion.

How would we implement the suggestion above?

[Tang Scholar]

First of all, thanks for taking the time to give such a considered opinion.

How would we implement the suggestion above?

One form would be completing Madalibi's initiative to make indexes of the main sections of the Forum. That is a very demanding job, but he did it for several sections.

An example: the index to the Geography forum, entitled
"The forum on Chinese Geography, A complete index - all the threads are here!"

The making of these indexes could be made a project of CHF.
The indexes made could be pinned, not only at the head of the corresponding section, but in a place at the head of the whole CHF, entitled with something like "The whole CHF Index - In construction".
"In construction" would mean, at first, that not all of the sections have indexes; and later on, when all sections have them, the expression might be erased, or changed into "In permanent construction".
Because the indexes would need a work of mainteinance for including new topics. Moderators could likely take care of that.

One small voluntary team with knowledge of the subject and of Chinese terms about it, which should include the relevant moderators, could achieve it.

Madalibi gave detailed instructions on how to make such indexes. What has been stopping me in preparing an index for the Literature section (besides lack of time and energy) has been my lack of knowledge in chinese terms about the subject and my insufficient knowledge of Chinese literature, needed to give every topic its place. I was able to locate and identify about two thirds of the topics, but the remainder were a mystery to me.

[General_Zhaoyun]

i visit CHF almost every night to read new posts, but have rarely posted because my knowledge is poor where chinese history is concerned. its pretty daunting to post anything when you see what the rest post. and previously when i asked a question i was thinking about, the first few replies were pretty rude, and arrogant enough to make further posting uncomfortable.

I can't assure you that all CHF members are friendly. But I can guarantee to you that most of CHF members are helpful and friendly. I'm sure for those 'rude one' that you encounter, they are probably only a small minority. We have been fostering a friendly culture in CHF for a long time. If the staffs had been monitoring that, we would have stop it.

If you feel uncomfortable about certain 'rude members', you can always make a report to moderators. We will take action on that.

Edited by General_Zhaoyun, 25 May 2009 - 05:21 AM.

[General_Zhaoyun]

I would agree that the moderation here does seem very good. I would not characterize the organization of forums as "excellent", however. The forums are certainly organized into a wide range of topics, and if that's what's meant by "organization of forums" then I would agree. However in terms of access to the wealth of information here, the forums are an impenetrable maze. I've been visiting this forum relatively often for probably a year now and still feel like a total beginner because the structure of the forum is simply too large and unwieldy for me to grasp. I think that this feature isn't noted by the older members, because they have a deep knowledge of the forum and where to find the information they need.

A lot of information is buried in old topics, many of which stretch to several pages of discussion. Actually finding that information is very difficult. This tends to stifle, in my opinion, newcomers from taking part and asking questions because they dread the "this was already answered four years ago in thread <x>". Older users do seem very helpful in pointing newcomers to these old threads, but it's a shame that this sort of service is required.

I suggested some time ago, in another thread, that a wiki approach to some of the frequently-requested information found in the forums could be adopted. There were some very negative reactions to that, and I accept that the consensus is for this to be purely a forum without trying to become something else. Nevertheless, I think that some form of extra organization or "reference" forums that link to other threads is necessary to prevent users spending fruitless hours digging in old threads for snippets of information. I personally think that this would contribute greatly to encouraging new users to keep coming back to the site.

I'm not sure if this is asking too much, but it would also be amazing to see some kind of email "keyword notification" available on the site. I was trying to follow the weekly poem translations, but can only follow each thread as it appears. Sometimes I miss it, and so have to keep checking back in case a new thread has been posted. It would be fantastic if there were some way to add a filter that says "email me when this word/phrase appears in a thread". It would be yet another way to manage the flood of information here, and would bring me back to the site more often.

Just some comments and suggestions! The last is a bit far-fetched, I know, but I think that a more approachable way to access information here is increasingly necessary in order to retain new users.

There is a large chunk of quality information in CHF. But there is a problem. While we have attempted to organize these information according to different forums, it still looks rather 'large and complex' for beginners to find the information that they want. I've already understood about this 'pain' 2 years ago, while trying to improve the search of information here.

Furthermore, I don't think the search tool in this forum is as powerful or as easy as that of google. This is the technical limitation of this forum software. So searching for relevant information in CHF can sometimes be a headache. Our current solution is to create a directory list in each forum, but even this takes much time, esp. for moderators who had to volunteer this work. Also the need to update the list can be a rather manual time-consuming job.

I'm currently trying to do more of search engine optimization to allow the posts to be easily located in google. Some pages actually got dropped out of google after sometime. However, as you can see, there is a google search box located at the bottom of this forum, which can simply search within CHF. It's actually quite powerful compared to the forum software's search tool.

I think, what this forum needs is a better search tool and a faster way of locating information in CHF. I'm investigating how sites such as Wikipedia was able to organize the information. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I'll try to think of a way to resolve this problem.

[Tang Scholar]

... there is a google search box located at the bottom of this forum, which can simply search within CHF. It's actually quite powerful compared to the forum software's search tool.

I think, what this forum needs is a better search tool and a faster way of locating information in CHF. I'm investigating how sites such as Wikipedia was able to organize the information. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I'll try to think of a way to resolve this problem.

How about placing that google search box at the TOP of the forum? That would make it easier to use it, I guess.

[General_Zhaoyun]

How about placing that google search box at the TOP of the forum? That would make it easier to use it, I guess.

Good idea..I'll do that.

[Taikor]

You should be seeking wise words in the posts not pay attention to the attitudes. Our time spent on the net is very much limited. We should learn how to filter information and data instead of analyse things on the spot that robs our time.

On another note, the posts here are a lot softer than hardcore forums which I frequent

[Howard Fu]

i visit CHF almost every night to read new posts, but have rarely posted because my knowledge is poor where chinese history is concerned. its pretty daunting to post anything when you see what the rest post. and previously when i asked a question i was thinking about, the first few replies were pretty rude, and arrogant enough to make further posting uncomfortable.

I have been to CHF for a relatively long time, not as long as some old forumers. I have been yelled at and yelled at other people. Well, it's a part of life, isn't it? Sad, but true. I'm trying not to yell at others any more, but some topics are very controversial and people can get very emotional on those topics, so I don't know.

When I first came to CHF, I said I was attracted by the breadth of topics not depth. I think now it's the time for me to draw those words back and apologize. The depth of some CHF topics, esp in military history is as good as anywhere one can find. In fact, if someone has been following the discussions on CHF for some time, he's bound to know some topics better than even some experts in both China and the West.

I personally think the biggest strength of CHF is so many forumers from so diversified background. History is a very special discipline. A native Mongolian speaker is bound to know something a foreign historian doesn't know even if he had studied Mongolian history for a life time. A professional engineer or mathematician probably has some insight of the history of technology or mathematics nobody else has. This kind of cross fertilization of ideas help to break some deep rooted stereotypes held even by most professional historians in both the west and China. I think this is the most stimulating thing reading some CHF posts.

But the weakness of CHF is also that this is a forum. A forum is built for discussing topics not presenting knowledge, that's the function of wikipedia. My suggestion is maybe CHF can create a wiki like subpage or FAQs. Just my 2 cents.

[Bryan]

I doubt few remember me, as it has been some 4 to 5 years since I was last active here, but I must say that things have sure changed! Remembering from the beginning where CHF stood to where it is now, to the fact that even still there is a strong desire for improvement... well, it simply amazes me. I've been going over the site now for about an hour and it's a bit overwhelming, almost like jumping back into a cold pool after having been out for a while in the warmth of a lazy sun.

The one thing that I loved about CHF from the very beginning was, without a doubt, the desire. There was a desire to learn, to teach, to share, and, above all, to succeed. I must admit that these desires are still very evident and combined with the undeniable fact that CHF has grown into itself over the years leaves me with little doubt as to the sincerity of the member base in the pursuit of knowledge.

The biggest problem with messageboards is without a doubt trying to keep an active member base. Ever since I first met GZ, this was something he was trying to achieve to get CHF up and running. Looking around, I'd have to say that it's something that's been pulled off quite well, from the search engine bots to advertisements on other sites to whatever other methods I'm probably not aware of. From what I've seen, this forum has sustained its quality, and it looks like it has a very good staff keeping it running.

But the weakness of CHF is also that this is a forum. A forum is built for discussing topics not presenting knowledge, that's the function of wikipedia. My suggestion is maybe CHF can create a wiki like subpage or FAQs. Just my 2 cents.

While I agree that creating a wiki might definitely cut down on a lot of clutter in the form of masses of threads/topics, I feel that if it were to be created it would need to be kept to the status of a tool or accessory. It might kill off a lot of potential threads and discussions with different perspectives that everyone can learn from if not. Maybe link back to the discussions in the article? Still, however helpful it could be, I feel that a forum is a perfect place to present knowledge, solely for the fact that it opens up the topic to questions, debate, and more importantly, different perspectives.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Welcome back.. Bryan.. it's been a long time since I last see you...It's great to see you again.

A big difference from the time you join is that we have an Imperial exam system.

Notice that you're now a Xiucai Exam Candidate and cannot post until you pass our exam or participate in our exemption system. If you wish to take our exam, simply PM and should you pass it, you can become a scholar member. If you feel you're not confident in taking the exam, simply participate in the exemption plan to continue posting in CHF.

[mohistManiac]

I think it would help if there was a legend showing what the icons for the topic listings are and it would add character if they were Chinese symbols like a dragon or yin yang symbols, chopsticks for food topics. Sometimes they are red blue and tinted red and tinted blue and I don't know if that means that the particular topic is the one that other members are currently viewing or the most popularly viewed or that it has new posts. I think that those new to China History Forum could benefit by being shown what topics are popular just like when you go to a restaurant and you don't know what to order because the ingredients are not laid out but the waiter tells you and you have a better time choosing. I don't know maybe that will destroy the purpose of a free speech history forum and also mitigate the encylopedic aspect of it by directing people just to see what's popular.

[Lu Su]

I think it would help if there was a legend showing what the icons for the topic listings are and it would add character if they were Chinese symbols like a dragon or yin yang symbols, chopsticks for food topics. Sometimes they are red blue and tinted red and tinted blue and I don't know if that means that the particular topic is the one that other members are currently viewing or the most popularly viewed or that it has new posts. I think that those new to China History Forum could benefit by being shown what topics are popular just like when you go to a restaurant and you don't know what to order because the ingredients are not laid out but the waiter tells you and you have a better time choosing. I don't know maybe that will destroy the purpose of a free speech history forum and also mitigate the encylopedic aspect of it by directing people just to see what's popular.

All interesting ideas, but it presents many complications from the view of a webmaster and site designer. A great number of things have to be taken into consideration, including the overall feelings of the whole. Too many different or mis-matched symbols will be too confusing to many members. It would have to be something very similar and relevant, in that it instinctually feels correct or easily conclusive to the majority of the browsing populous and members. Also, site load is a problem. As you can see, CHF is a bit slow sometimes due to server load. Because of this, adding anything than can increase the kb load as opposed to still images, can further bog down the site. GZ does need to do site maintenance more often though, and I believe that would help at least with loading times. =P