32 replies to this topic

[LinDynasty]

i visit CHF almost every night to read new posts, but have rarely posted because my knowledge is poor where chinese history is concerned. its pretty daunting to post anything when you see what the rest post. and previously when i asked a question i was thinking about, the first few replies were pretty rude, and arrogant enough to make further posting uncomfortable.

I agree! It is quite normal to see some arrogance from a few when a good 1/3 of the forum are experts. We do have some very knowledged members here that can, at times be intimidating. I cannot count how many times I have spent a good amount of time writing a post or a replying to one to find myself deleting or refraining from posting altogether on a particular topic. I am happy this forum has so many experts, but at times, we do get intimidated based on our lack of knowledge on a subject or topic.

[General_Zhaoyun]

I agree! It is quite normal to see some arrogance from a few when a good 1/3 of the forum are experts. We do have some very knowledged members here that can, at times be intimidating. I cannot count how many times I have spent a good amount of time writing a post or a replying to one to find myself deleting or refraining from posting altogether on a particular topic. I am happy this forum has so many experts, but at times, we do get intimidated based on our lack of knowledge on a subject or topic.

Actually, you don't need to feel intimidated. There are quite a number of academics (PhDs, Professors) in CHF. Feel free to ask them questions if you're not sure.

If you feel that your knowledge in Chinese history/culture is not very good, you can always start in the beginner's forum.

[General_Zhaoyun]

All interesting ideas, but it presents many complications from the view of a webmaster and site designer. A great number of things have to be taken into consideration, including the overall feelings of the whole. Too many different or mis-matched symbols will be too confusing to many members. It would have to be something very similar and relevant, in that it instinctually feels correct or easily conclusive to the majority of the browsing populous and members. Also, site load is a problem. As you can see, CHF is a bit slow sometimes due to server load. Because of this, adding anything than can increase the kb load as opposed to still images, can further bog down the site. GZ does need to do site maintenance more often though, and I believe that would help at least with loading times. =P

The frequent downtime is the main reason why I change to a new webhost and a new server. I also ask the webhost to increase the memory limit for php to 128 M, as the previous limit was too low and causing a lot of issues..

I believe CHF is now faster. I'll continue to monitory the technical stability of the site.

[Lu Su]

The frequent downtime is the main reason why I change to a new webhost and a new server. I also ask the webhost to increase the memory limit for php to 128 M, as the previous limit was too low and causing a lot of issues..

I believe CHF is now faster. I'll continue to monitory the technical stability of the site.

Indeed it is. =) Hat's off to you, sir. Things seem rather nice. =)

[jameskrisnanda]

@ general zhao yun

good night sir.... i guest why there is not a merchandise CHF ? like jacket with CHF simbol or with admin singnnature, lol


just my opinion....u know ...i am from indonesia and i think this web is good

for example : www.kaskus.us visit it if u want ..... kaskus is quite same with CHF , the diferent is, kaskus have another TAB for buy/sell kaskus merhandise

it is interesting, i think
so the conculsion is = why CHF do not has a sell and buy TAB ? for CHF mercahndise

pls reply my coment
tq for yur attention

[jameskrisnanda]

@ general zhao yun

pls email me back :

blade_of_virus@hotmail.com

tq

[General_Zhaoyun]

@ general zhao yun

good night sir.... i guest why there is not a merchandise CHF ? like jacket with CHF simbol or with admin singnnature, lol


just my opinion....u know ...i am from indonesia and i think this web is good

for example : www.kaskus.us visit it if u want ..... kaskus is quite same with CHF , the diferent is, kaskus have another TAB for buy/sell kaskus merhandise

it is interesting, i think
so the conculsion is = why CHF do not has a sell and buy TAB ? for CHF mercahndise

pls reply my coment
tq for yur attention

Check out http://www.cafepress.com/chfshop

I didn't put the link after upgrading the forum software.

[ghostexorcist]

I remember there was a big deletion drive a while back. People had their accounts deleted for non-activity. According to the count presented at the bottom of the main page, we have just over 9,000 members. That seems like a rather large number considering less than 1% of that actually parcipates in discussions. We could probably get some extra space on the server if we started pruning non-active accounts again.

[Gan]

There is a treasure of knowledge about Chinese history published in the Chinese language. I was hoping someone can help translate them.

Sometimes, I really do need to see the original writers or people are actually on the ground in order to make sense of a lot of topics. Once in a while I would contact a professor at the Needham institute in Cambridge or the University of Science and Technology of China at Hefei. Sometimes, they also would send me links or other articles which on my own would be hard to find. However, most of them are in the Chinese language, which I can make out partially. Some of the aren't in English but German, French, Japanese and other languages.

Don't know if it helps but maybe someone can post out some references.

[Gan]

Yeah, CHF is pretty intimidating to be honest. However, that's kind of how dealing with real people is like, especially when there are discussions of this level. The main difference on the internet is we can be more distance and the tone of the language can be more straight forward or blunt (brutal in some cases) but if we were actually talking face to face it would sound different. I think this is one of those issues.

I get so intimidated on topics I don't know about and want to say something but refrain from doing so. One thing I've learn is to not take things so seriously. Think outside the box. A person who is very knowledgeable should be able to break information down to a point where it can be deliver to any level of education but not lose the important main facts. That's what I think.

[shunyadragon]

I agree! It is quite normal to see some arrogance from a few when a good 1/3 of the forum are experts. We do have some very knowledged members here that can, at times be intimidating. I cannot count how many times I have spent a good amount of time writing a post or a replying to one to find myself deleting or refraining from posting altogether on a particular topic. I am happy this forum has so many experts, but at times, we do get intimidated based on our lack of knowledge on a subject or topic.

I think as a general rule it is good to put on a thick skin for any forum on the internet. I consider this one far above average and on the whole very very professional. My disappointments are the lack of activity on certain themes after the CHF crash.

I was deep into CHF before the crash and learned a lot. I especially loved the poetry threads in the Chinese Literature section. The culture and archeology sections were of great interest to me. Unfortunately when CHF came out of the darkness, the interest in these categories deteriorated and poetry pretty much terminated into dead threads. I dropped for a while, now I am back. Unfortunately poetry is still dead, or at best a near death experience. I generally find a low response to posts except for a few hot topics. I hope CHF revives to a point that my interest is inspired again to the level it was before.

[JohnD]

I think as a general rule it is good to put on a thick skin for any forum on the internet. I consider this one far above average and on the whole very very professional. My disappointments are the lack of activity on certain themes after the CHF crash.

I was deep into CHF before the crash and learned a lot. I especially loved the poetry threads in the Chinese Literature section. The culture and archeology sections were of great interest to me. Unfortunately when CHF came out of the darkness, the interest in these categories deteriorated and poetry pretty much terminated into dead threads. I dropped for a while, now I am back. Unfortunately poetry is still dead, or at best a near death experience. I generally find a low response to posts except for a few hot topics. I hope CHF revives to a point that my interest is inspired again to the level it was before.

I wouldn't say CHF is "professional"; far from it. The mission statement says that CHF aims for a scholarly level of discourse, but I don't think the forum has every really lived up to that goal. Even in very old threads, most of the time no sources are cited for whatever is said. Which isn't to say that there is little real information here; rather, there's a lot, but it's no substitute for reading a peer-reviewed academic article. And it's frustrating to read the mission statement and then have a senior member get bent out of shape when you ask for a source and simply claim that CHF is a forum and meant to be more casual. It's like CHF too often wants to have it both ways.

As far as activity, I've read comments where members have said that there has been so much discussion and there really isn't anything left to be said; basically, it's all been covered. That's not true at all, of course. What really is the case, I think, is that the members have exhausted their store of knowledge; they've talked about all they know, or think they know, about Chinese history, and therefore conclude there's nothing left to talk about.

I enjoyed the poetry translations too, even though I only tried it once or twice. What makes me leave and return from time to time varies, but mostly it's the lack of standards being held. Even though the CHF guidelines state that we should back up our arguments, it seems few actually care about doing that, and those guidelines are not upheld by the staff so the process just continues. That's why there are so many topics that quickly go off-track and never go back. It gets more and more obvious that for someone who really wants to learn more, CHF isn't a great place for that because you can rarely tell where the information you're given is coming from, or the credentials of who is giving it.

But I still come back because this is the best place I know on the internet with people interested in the same things I am. On the whole it's a good community; I think it would be much better if CHF decided just what kind of forum it wants to be, and then sticks to that. Either it's a serious forum intended for learning and scholarly discourse, or it's a forum for casual discussion. Or maybe just enforce the seriousness in some forums and not in others.

Also, no more threads about Korean genetics. At one point a while back that's about all that was being discussed.

[Gan]

I'm not entirely sure, but I've always thought that this site was more for casual discussions than an actual Academic forum. There are already many different sites where you can do that. Especially if it's part of a college course or a forum maintained by a professor (the forum at times won't be open to the public as here, I've been to one that was like that). Granted, the topics here are interesting but serious enough to warrant citations.

If you all really want to turn this site into something similar they have for online college courses (they have specific forum for discussions where you are require to post citations, construct good sentences, etc.), if this is what you all really want it to be, then I'm afraid it will turn off so many members and potential members.

There's not that much difference between what you can post and learn here than actual Academic group discussions. Relatively speaking, I mean some topics are too far out or too questionable to take serious. Unless we're talking about seminar style on the graduate level, I really don't think most people are interested in that. Everyone's level of education is different and it would be a shame if a person's interest were to go away or be turn off if he/she can not be as articulate with words as well as others are on this site.

If this is truly the direction you all want to head towards, the level of activity will tremendously go down. That's my prediction, but I could be wrong.

[JohnD]

I'm not entirely sure, but I've always thought that this site was more for casual discussions than an actual Academic forum. There are already many different sites where you can do that. Especially if it's part of a college course or a forum maintained by a professor (the forum at times won't be open to the public as here, I've been to one that was like that). Granted, the topics here are interesting but serious enough to warrant citations.

If you all really want to turn this site into something similar they have for online college courses (they have specific forum for discussions where you are require to post citations, construct good sentences, etc.), if this is what you all really want it to be, then I'm afraid it will turn off so many members and potential members.

There's not that much difference between what you can post and learn here than actual Academic group discussions. Relatively speaking, I mean some topics are too far out or too questionable to take serious. Unless we're talking about seminar style on the graduate level, I really don't think most people are interested in that. Everyone's level of education is different and it would be a shame if a person's interest were to go away or be turn off if he/she can not be as articulate with words as well as others are on this site.

If this is truly the direction you all want to head towards, the level of activity will tremendously go down. That's my prediction, but I could be wrong.

I'm not saying CHF ought to be like an online college; but too many threads go nowhere because the participants just post what they think they know about a subject without really backing it up with anything substantial. You can see it in countless threads. It goes like this: 'A' claims X to be true. Then 'B' comes in and says that's wrong, it's really Y. Then A responds back. Then B. All this time, things are stated, but no sources are cited, and the longer it goes, the more the conversation either goes off track or devolves into a personal battle where each side turns to insults or other unhelpful comments. This is allowed to continue, sometimes with moderators participating. In these kinds of threads, no one learns anything new because everyone's opinion is set from the beginning. There's no real discourse.

One needn't be very knowledgeable or articulate to contribute. Speculation is not bad either, as long as it's presented as such. The problem I have arises when people state things in a factual way, then don't want to back up the argument when asked to, even if the statement isn't a controversial one. There are many visitors to the site and new members who don't know who the senior members are. Maybe these people are knowledgeable and only post things accepted by academia, but your average visitor isn't going to be able to separate the professors and amateur historians amongst us from the less knowledgeable members. That's why backing up your argument is important.

My impression of CHF is that it is intended to be a place for serious discussion. I think that because of things like this:

"As time passes by, CHF has progressively grown and developed into the main English-language portal on the internet for discussing chinese history. Today's CHF is a world-class intellectual (academic) community featuring high quality postings and contribution from many helpful members. Because of this reputation, it has attracted many Chinese history buffs from all over the world ranging from beginners to experts."

That's from the About Us section on this forum. This is what new members are suggested to read, and the above quote is how CHF represents itself. So if CHF is meant to be more casual, then its mission statement ought to be altered to reflect that.

Again, from the About Us section:

CHF functions essentially as an academic and educational site for learning, discussion, and research into chinese history, culture and language.

Our educational objectives are listed below:

1. To generate a strong interest among members from all over the world to learn chinese history, language and culture.

2. To enable members from all over the world to learn a wealth of knowledge accumulated over 5000 years of chinese history.

3. To provide an academic research environment for chinese history, culture and language.

4. To promote chinese history, culture and language worldwide through the internet

Now, just to be clear, I do think casual discussions have a place here. We ought to be able to talk about anything, but when the topic is about an historical event or figure, or whatever, where the facts, or truth is being sought, then our standards in getting as close to that truth as possible ought to be higher what they have been. If a person doesn't know the answer, there is no harm in saying so.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I do like CHF, despite my complaints. Perhaps you're right that the activity may be lessened if CHF did enforce a more academic tone, but the activity is pretty low anyway. For me, it would be worth the experiment. Maybe we could re-attract former members, and still gain new ones. More importantly, maybe we could keep more of the members we have.

[Gan]

It might or might not attract new members and retain the ones now. I'm just stating possibilities. Especially since Chinese history is full of sensitive topics, it's not going to stop people from making questionable commentaries.

Usually if a discussion comes to a dead end, with no one wanting to back up a particular topic with sources, if no one is going to do that, usually people just move on and/or don't take the topic any more serious than it ought to be. That's usually what happens and why some threads die down. Sometimes.

About the turning into insults/person battles, I also notice that issue. I partially put this responsibility on the moderators. Sometimes, I do notice when they participate, they are sometimes the ones who add more fuel to the fire.

With history topics, to be honest, all of us are going to have such a hard time getting to as close to the truth as possible. This is not always due to personal bias and opinions, rather because the subject is pretty hard itself, and even the experts and their methods are questionable. Not jsut that, but the sources and research material is questionable as the people who wrote ancient documents have their own personal opinions and biases of the ordeal. It's not going to be straight forward. Those whose career is history know of these problems. So, most of the time, it does end up being a debate regarding interpretation.

Some scholars are not that open to sharing their work in a forum such as this, so information is also limited.

There's enough published material out there that can offer both support and contradictions to any interpretation of historical events and figures. Sometimes you have to go beyond the work of historians and archeologists to figure out how the past is. Military historians, especially those who have faced combat (experience on the field) can offer insights and interpretations on certain historical events which others who don't have such backgrounds might not be able to reply. Medical historians or those in the medical/medical science field can do the same thing on certain topics. Anyone who studies history of Chinese technology ought to know engineering. Etc. etc. Life experiences sometimes make as much of a significant impact as citing sources.

If certain threads get too frustrating because people just sprout a bunch of opinions without providing any sources for them, if they're not willing to, there's really not much we can do. Other than putting aside those opinions, and if we're really interested in knowing more, just search for it ourselves and come back to that particular thread to state what we found.

That's really the most we can do, whether or not CHF stays the same or changes to become more "Academic" in nature.

Edited by Gan, 14 September 2010 - 01:48 AM.