14 replies to this topic

[glk]

ok i just want to know who is actually the prettiest of them two. diao chan is one of the 4 great ancient beauties, but was never protray big in romance of three kingdom. where as xiao qiao is often said to be beautiful in the novel and was one of the reasons why cao cao wanted to conqueror the south. so i just want to know who is the prettiest of them two?

[Ma Su]

As Xiao Qiao existed and the other was a novel invention, Qiao I guess. As we have no pictures and the female looks are rarely described in detail, hard to say with any such questions on feminine beauty

Edited by Ma Su, 27 July 2009 - 03:22 AM.

[popcorn]

I would say is Diao chan because the idea that Xiao Qiao made CaoCao want to conquer the southern part was a poem made by ZGL. SInce there is concrete evidence that Diao Chan is one of the 4 ancient beauties, I would be tend to believe Diao Chan is the one. However, I think that what the ancient peple's idea about beauty may be different from us now.

[Dominic]

Lu Bu did fell in love with one of Dong Zhuo's maid. but never mention the name as Diao Chan

I did come across a reading (cant remember where now) that Diao Chan (name) is actually related to the meaning of maid

we can't really tell if the beauty from those days is equal to our today's taste in beauty, who knows if there's a difference in perception

[Match]

Despite that Diao Chan is one of the Four Beauties of ancient China, we do not know for sure whether such a person existed. Like mentioned, Lu Bu did have something with a maid of Dong Zhuo, but the name of this maid was never mentioned. Aside from that, there are no historical recording of Diao Chan. She only existed in folktales, poems, etc. Therefore, it is hard to compare a (probable) fictional person to someone that existed.

Xiao Qiao on the other hand was only mentioned briefly in historical records - which only mentioned the Two Qiao marrying and that both of them were beautiful. The part where you mentioned about Cao Cao is purely based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, a novel. Even in the novel, it was Zhuge Liang that said Cao Cao was invading for Xiao Qiao to Zhou Yu (purely to anger Zhou Yu to persuade him to ally with him) and not Cao Cao wanting to invade for women.

So... to compare these two women with limited sources about their existence AND details is impossible.

Finally, like the posters before me mentioned, the perception of beauty for these ancient people might be different from us. For example, I heard that during the Tang Dynasty people liked chubby women and considered them as beauty, that's why some people say that Yang Guifei (one of the Four Beauties) was chubby/fat - where in comparison to our time right now thin seems to be valued more.

Edited by Match, 17 August 2009 - 07:41 PM.

[Zantam03]

Why is Xiao Qiao always mentioned as TK's most beautiful girl and never Da Qiao? Weren't they much alike?

[Lu Su]

Why is Xiao Qiao always mentioned as TK's most beautiful girl and never Da Qiao? Weren't they much alike?

A good question.

Gentleman - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. This will always be a matter of opinion. I am sure that some women of the age, such as the real counterparts that exist for those mentioned, may have more physically attractive traits to a larger portion of the male population for the time than others, but, it is still opinion which can vary from one man to the next depending on his own tastes, and also psychological appeals.

[coykiesaol]

I think there is no the prettiest ,they have their own style and personality,both are goddess...

[Swordsman]

I thought Diao Chan is a fiction character ? Unless there is a time machine for us to go back to 3 kingdoms era, we won't know how they look like. pretty or not.
Remember beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[longbaby]

Xiao Qiao had a twin, Da Qiao. Usually twins are not very beautiful, by my personal observation. So I would vote for Diao Chao.

[alantas]

External appearances are one thing, but the merit of their doings is another.

And because of that, I think Diao Chan is the more alluring of both given choices - for single-handedly toppling a tyrant and his estranged God-Son. She is pretty selfless to have done what she did and to act in the way she did... in the novel.

The Qiaos... didn't do nothing much, other than their name being thrown around / used by Zhuge Liang to enrage Zhou Yu / Sun Quan into action... in the novel.

IMO, the best of the "four beauties" (四大美女) would be Wang Zhao Jun (王昭君) - she was pretty much the only one who didn't cause anyone harm or grief, heralded times of peace between the Xiongnu and Han China, also being selfless (albeit no choice) and upright adds additional brownie points.

[iwanenator]

What is standard of beauty in 3K era ? is beautiful in 3K era also beautiful judged by nowaday standard ?

Im asking this coz there were times in various region when superfat woman are considered beautiful, also there were times in japan when black toothed woman are considered very beautiful -- which is a big no no nowadays...

[Korin]

What is standard of beauty in 3K era ? is beautiful in 3K era also beautiful judged by nowaday standard ?

Im asking this coz there were times in various region when superfat woman are considered beautiful, also there were times in japan when black toothed woman are considered very beautiful -- which is a big no no nowadays...

 

Why are you discriminating?

[iwanenator]

Why are you discriminating?

 

not discriminating, just being curious and honest....

different time -- different culture -- different standard/value

problem is --when ppl speak of diao chan etc the depiction usually from game or film-- which is probably really different with real person... oh and historically diao chan doesnt exist and not mentioned in SGZ, IIRC...., and here is history forum not RTK game/serial forum...

Edited by iwanenator, 26 May 2013 - 10:44 PM.

[Korin]

Aeneas can be talked about because Mythology is allowed on history forum, I guess .But I think Aeneas was based off a Trojan prince who escaped a war or something.

 

Diaochan is a Opera invention, and used in movies/games--so you can't really compare qiao sisters with her. But I think even qiao sisters, if they did exist .. they didn't look like how movies/tv shows are portraying them.