2 replies to this topic

[TengAiHui]

I found an interesting article while surfing another forum about China. The article is titled West Confused Over Confucians. http://atimes.com/at...a/KI10Ad01.html . In it, there is a discussion about the meaning of the word "Confucian" and how its meaning has changes over time.

Innovation and reform that adopted foreign methods and ways of thinking became "anti-Confucian" at the beginning of the century. Decades later, in the early 1970s, being called "Confucian" was derogatory, a label for being "rightist" and a supporter of premier Zhou Enlai, deemed by Mao a political loser.

Twenty years later, in the 1990s, being Confucian and an advocate for "Confucian values" was a code word in Asia and in China to pledge resistance to full Westernization and diffidence towards Western-style democracy - the one thing to be shunned in the process of modernization.

Now that it is 2009, does Confucian still mean the same thing -- modernizing technologically while resisting the democratic values of the West? Also, now that "Confucian" has a different meaning, are contemporary Chinese no longer studying or following the philosophy of Confucius and his followers?

* Sorry, it seems that I don't know how to "Insert Link" anymore.

Edited by TengAiHui, 21 September 2009 - 10:50 PM.

[General_Zhaoyun]

I found an interesting article while surfing another forum about China. The article is titled West Confused Over Confucians http://atimes.com/at...a/KI10Ad01.html . In it, there is a discussion about the meaning of the word "Confucian" and how its meaning has changes over time.

Now that it is 2009, does Confucian still mean the same thing -- modernizing technologically while resisting the democratic values of the West?
* Sorry, it seems that I don't know how to "Insert Link" anymore.

Part of the current "official" PRC's political view is that western democracy is not necessarily a bad thing, but China should not undergo a 'full westernization' of adopting western political structure. It has to search for its own unique political path of restoring its pre-eminent position in the world stage that has roots from its Imperial past. The basis for this political view had originated from the demise of China from the time of Opium war (1842) till the end of 1949. During this period of time, China had witnessed great havoc, humiliation and incursion from foreign powers, internal rife, civil war, chaos and Japanese invasion. From 1842 till 1979, China has been 'searching for a way' to save the nation from the great decline and chaos by learning from the west, Japan and Soviet Union. In the end, it found out that none were entirely 100% suitable for China. The Western democracy adopted during the republican period (1911-1949) was inherently a weak system in China, resulting in internal rife, partition between various warlords, internal chaos etc.

During the early 20th century, in the drive of adoption of 'westernization', as part of the May four movement, China began to attack traditional Chinese culture, particularly Confucianism. The view at that time was that traditional Chinese culture held back the progress of China and was fully responsible for the decline of China. As such, China had to be "radically transformed'. It culminated in the Cultural Revolution from 1965-1975 whereby much of the traditional Chinese culture was destroyed.

From 1979 onwards, China opened up itself to the world again and during this time, it had received a large amount of western cultural influence. It suddenly realized that there was a need to 'heal' the damage from the cultural revolution and to restore traditional Chinese culture. Otherwise, it would soon just become another mock-up of western capitalism.

Confucianism is today considered to be 'positive' in China, mainly because it was seen as a key drive to social and political stability. China learned about this from the economic success of some Asian economic powers such as Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hongkong whereby Confucianism was one key contributing factors to their economic success. More importantly, Confucianism was seen to be an alternative counter-block to 'full westernization' in an age where globalization was the norm.

Also, now that "Confucian" has a different meaning, are contemporary Chinese no longer studying or following the philosophy of Confucius and his followers?

The thing is that "Confucianism" changes with time. While the philosophy of Confucius and his followers formed the foundation for Confucianism, there were new Confucian thoughts being created. If I'm not wrong, PRC now views Confucianism as an important key drive in elevating the ethics and quality of its people.

[Yizheng]

I found an interesting article while surfing another forum about China. The article is titled West Confused Over Confucians http://atimes.com/at...a/KI10Ad01.html . In it, there is a discussion about the meaning of the word "Confucian" and how its meaning has changes over time.



Now that it is 2009, does Confucian still mean the same thing -- modernizing technologically while resisting the democratic values of the West? Also, now that "Confucian" has a different meaning, are contemporary Chinese no longer studying or following the philosophy of Confucius and his followers?

* Sorry, it seems that I don't know how to "Insert Link" anymore.

I think different people give different interpretations to 'confucian'. Personally, I think it is a mistake to see it as Confucian = conservative.
I think the example the article gives of a stronger but 'confucian' Chinese Beiyang navy defeated by a weaker but more modern-thinking Japanese force is inaccurate. The Beiyang navy was Asia's strongest at one point, but by 1894, it had been overtaken by the Japanese who had continued their modernisation while the Chinese hadn't. And Chinese naval development stalled in those years not because of Confucianism, but because of corruption and lack of funding, and corruption is very un-confucian.

Confucius says a lot about the 'good old days' of sage rulers and order in the land, but looking to some idealised past order is not in itself conservative. In the West there were thinkers like Rousseau, for example, who on the one hand provided ideas that helped inspire the French revolution, and on the other was yearning for an idealised 'state of nature' when people were living in natural goodness.

I would not either oppose Confucius and democracy. For a start, when Confucius was around, democracy as its' understood now didn't exist, with everyone, rich or poor, man or woman, getting a vote. But I personally see nothing in Confucius' thinking to make it incompatible with democracy. Confucius emphasises the importance of personal uprightness, propriety, sense of duty and loyalty, justice and humaneness, working for the greater good, preserving harmony among people. I do not see how any of this can be uncompatible with democracy. On the contrary, it would surely make a democratic society stronger if everyone, like politicians and civil servants, follow these values. Confucius was aware of how great a misfortune oppressive and tyrannical government is for the people, and his followers later took this further and provide in their thought a justification for overthrowing tyrannical regimes - regimes in which the rulers no longer fufill their duties as they should, no longer qualify to be worthy of their place.

As for Confucian thinking now, I think the communist party will use it as a tool to try to help give a moral values foundation to modern Chinese society, and Confucius is very much rehabilitated now, but this too will be in many ways just another opportunistic political interpretation of Confucian thinking, selective use of it for the party's purposes.