19 replies to this topic

[mrclub]

The orthography used in wu-chinese.com is quite odd.

nevertheless I would provide an IPA transcription.

In Northern Wu, or in most of northern Wu,

sky should be [tʰi] thi
10 should be [z̥əʔ] zə'
9 should be [tɕiøʏ] in Suzhou and [tɕiɤ] in Shanghainese (cieu)

Wu Chinese retains the three-way contrast of aspirated initials, unaspirate initials, and voiced initials. (tʰ, t, d)
Wu Chinese lost the -p, -t, and -k finals of Middle Chinese, and the only remaining vestige left is the glottal stop. (-ʔ) A notable example is the word 國. It can be pronounced as either [kuəʔ] or [koʔ], when there should be a -k ending in Middle Chinese. It lost the alveolar nasal ending in such rimes only to be replaced by -ø in the case of 南 [nø]/安 [ø] (-an to ø), -ɲ , or a nasal vowel such as ã.

Another case is when Wu Chinese splits and joins rimes and initials, to a point that Wu Chinese has a larger inventory of initial consonants (that includes [b d ɡ ɦ z v d​͡ʑ ʑ]) and pure vowels [i y ɪ ɥ e ø ɛ ə ɐ a ɑ ɔ ɤ o ʊ u] that rivals Germanic languages, esp. English.

good explanation ! thanks

[Andy Lau]

Found some videos:

1) http://v.ku6.com/sho...0mTPFVc1W2.html

2)



I guess it's due to the fact that Taishanese immigrated to Guangdong much later than other Cantonese speaking groups and therefore have similarities with Mandarin, but preserves Middle Chinese much better than Mandarin, just like Hakka.

Edited by Andy Lau, 29 January 2010 - 10:53 PM.

[qrasy]

I guess it's due to the fact that Taishanese immigrated to Guangdong much later than other Cantonese speaking groups and therefore have similarities with Mandarin, but preserves Middle Chinese much better than Mandarin, just like Hakka.

As I have repeated many times, they preserve Middle Chinese better than Mandarin at some sides, but worse than Mandarin in many other sides.
There are a lot of examples to take for someone familiar with the 2 dialects and Middle Chinese rhymes.

[Andy Lau]

As I have repeated many times, they preserve Middle Chinese better than Mandarin at some sides, but worse than Mandarin in many other sides.
There are a lot of examples to take for someone familiar with the 2 dialects and Middle Chinese rhymes.

I thought that the Yue and Hakka language groups preserved Middle Chinese better than Mandarin ? For example the initial and final consonants, mandarin is pretty weak, while it is well preserved in Taishanese and Hakka ie Nyin/Ngin (person), Gok (country), Nyit/Ngit(day), etc. The "i" and "ei" vowels are mixed in mandarin, where as in Taishanese(most variants) and Hakka use "i' vowel (found in middle chinese) ie Fi Gi (Airplane), Mi Gok (US), etc.

Edited by Andy Lau, 30 January 2010 - 01:42 AM.

[qrasy]

I thought that the Yue and Hakka language groups preserved Middle Chinese better than Mandarin ? For example the initial and final consonants, mandarin is pretty weak, while it is well preserved in Taishanese and Hakka ie Nyin/Ngin (person), Gok (country), Nyit/Ngit(day), etc. The "i" and "ei" vowels are mixed in mandarin, where as in Taishanese(most variants) and Hakka use "i' vowel (found in middle chinese) ie Fi Gi (Airplane), Mi Gok (US), etc.

All of those depends on which dialect of Mandarin/Yue/Hakka you are talking about.
Yes, the final consonants are not preserved well in Mandarin.
In standard Mandarin, the sh-s difference was intact (Taishanese has the difference but it's shifted). [Note that some Yue and some Hakka do keep the sh-s difference.]
It also changes "-wi-" medial to "ü" which is better than Taishan/Hakka/Cantonese approximation.
Words like "瓜" is better preserved in Cantonese and Mandarin than Taishan (by having the -w-).
Mandarin also has "ai" instead of "oi" (though the rest of the vowels is shifted like many of other Chinese).