135 replies to this topic

[xng]

I recently went to Thailand a few times and I couldn't distinguish who is Thai chinese or other ethnicity just by looking at their facial features, furthermore, most Thai chinese can't speak any chinese language well (just a smattering).

From my understanding, there are 4 major ethnicity in Thailand

1. Tai-kadai
2. Chinese
3. Mon-khmer
4. Malay

Unlike countries in Indonesia, Philipines, Malaysia, Singapore, you can distinguish the chinese from the other groups purely based on their skin color and eye shape.

The mon-khmer people and the malay people are both brown skinned people. The malay can be distinguished from the mon-khmer just by observing their religious items that they wear eg. muslim scarf (malay) and buddhist amulet (mon khmer).

I see a lot of 'chinese looking' thai with oval shaped eyes and fair skin.

Can any Thai chinese in this forum help us identify what is the original look for the Tai-kradai people and whether they look similar to Chinese and how to distinguish between these 2 groups.

Are most young Thai chinese learning mandarin in school now with the rise of China ? Are there any racial discrimination ?

Edited by xng, 11 February 2010 - 11:29 AM.

[katana300]

I'm not Thai Chinese. I'm Viet but I went to Thailand 4 years ago. I've been to Bangkong, Chiangmai, and Pattaya. From my 'memory' there weren't drastic differences in term of look between the three groups, though I got to say among those 3 places I've been to, the Bangkokian look more like Vietnamese, then the Chiangmai people look slightly less Viet, and the Pattaya looks kinda different from Viet. But again there weren't drastic differences in my memory. There were some skin color variation but dark-skinned and light-skinned people existed in all 3 places. I didn't see any Thai speak Chinese on my whole trip there.

[qrasy]

I guess the Tai-Kadai speakers in Thai are already "mixed" to begin with (I mean before even Chinese came); if I remember correctly it's estimated they came to Thailand around 12th century.

For Tai-Kadai speakers in China, as far as I know most of them do not look very different from South Chinese.
But perhaps some people can actually distinguish them based on subtler features.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Many of the Thai Chinese are mixed-blood, with inter-marriages between ethnic Chinese and Tai-Kadai. Thus, it would be harder to recognize the Thai Chinese. Furthermore, most of the Thai Chinese had already been assimilated to Thai. Many don't speak Chinese languages anymore.

However, for the late immigrants, you can still sometimes tell the difference through their looks. Most Thai Chinese are of Teochew origin. But I've met those with cantonese, hokkien and Shanghainese ancestry.

[sg_han]

I recently went to Thailand a few times and I couldn't distinguish who is Thai chinese or other ethnicity just by looking at their facial features, furthermore, most Thai chinese can't speak any chinese language well (just a smattering).

From my understanding, there are 4 major ethnicity in Thailand

1. Tai-kradai
2. Chinese
3. Mon-khmer
4. Malay

Unlike countries in Indonesia, Philipines, Malaysia, Singapore, you can distinguish the chinese from the other groups purely based on their skin color and eye shape.

The mon-khmer people and the malay people are both brown skinned people. The malay can be distinguished from the mon-khmer just by observing their religious items that they wear eg. muslim scarf (malay) and buddhist amulet (mon khmer).

I see a lot of 'chinese looking' thai with oval shaped eyes and fair skin.

Can any Thai chinese in this forum help us identify what is the original look for the Tai-kradai people and whether they look similar to Chinese and how to distinguish between these 2 groups.

Are most young Thai chinese learning mandarin in school now with the rise of China ? Are there any racial discrimination ?

To answer your own question, many Thais are sending their kids to learn Mandarin (more for economic rather than cultural reasons). In many Thai school, they are beginning to teach mandarin too as thais become more confortable with the Chinese already being successfully assimilated.

only ethnic chinese of the 2nd generation still continue speaking thai with a smattering of chinese. almost all the 3rd/4th generation speak only thai. the 1st generation (if still alive would have been in their 80s or 90s by now. they are the only ones who stil see themselves as being chinese.

there are still almost no discrimination with the successful assimilation , moreover, many thais nowhave somechinese blood in them, especially those frombangkok

[mrclub]

Many people in Bangkok have their ancestry traced back to Chaoshan Region in China

[sunflower1]

I've heard story that many Hopo Hakka Chinese in Bangkok and also Southern Thailand.

[mrclub]

Many Thai Chinese still can speak some Chinese dialects though, but they won't understand Chinese

[xng]

only ethnic chinese of the 2nd generation still continue speaking thai with a smattering of chinese. almost all the 3rd/4th generation speak only thai.

What I want to know is how do we differentiate the Thai chinese from the Thai Tai-kadai mainly from the looks ?

We can't be asking 'are you chinese ?' to every stranger. I had a tough time differentiating who are chinese and who are tai-kadai when I was in Thailand.

In Singapore, we can distinguish who are malays and who are chinese just by looking at them.

[sg_han]

Xng, the geenral guideline is...the thai chinese tend to be fairer and lack south east asian features.

however the answer is you cannot really tell because many thais have chinese blood. and even if they did, many would not tell you(not that all of them knows about it)

[xng]

Xng, the geenral guideline is...the thai chinese tend to be fairer and lack south east asian features.

I think you're also confused. There are 4 main groups of ethnicities in Thailand just as there are 3 main groups ie. chinese, malays, indians in Singapore.

The Tai-kadai group seem to be indistinguishable from the Southern Chinese as they have fair skin and oval shaped eyes ie. they are hardly called having 'south east asian' features. An example is the Zhuang people living in Gwangxi province, these are Tai-Kadai speaking people.

Those who you see as having 'south east asian' features are the Mon-Khmer and Malay people.

The Mon-khmer are the real natives of Thailand whereas the Tai-kadai people migrated from South China ie. Yunnan, Gwangxi region and conquered the region around the 13th century.

Although all Thai nationality speak Thai language (which is a Tai-kadai language) but this is not their mother tongue except for the Tai-kadai people.

Photo of Zhuang

My link

Edited by xng, 14 February 2010 - 05:34 AM.

[sg_han]

I think you are the one who is confused.i can tell a thai chinese and a native thai(not that a thai chinese isnt native). you are the one who cant tell the difference.

We can't be asking 'are you chinese ?' to every stranger. I had a tough time differentiating who are chinese and who are tai-kadai when I was in Thailand

so i simply answered saying thai chinese tend to be fairer and have distinct chinese features but not the native thais

[qrasy]

Although all Thai nationality speak Thai language (which is a Tai-kadai language) but this is not their mother tongue except for the Tai-kadai people.

Well, we can have language replacement so there can be people who are Mon-Khmer by ancestry but speak Thai as family language.
Also, Tai-Kadai minorities have their own language, not necessarily Thai.

Btw, a significant of the Thais are probably mixed in origin, so some are "distinguishable except from a few angles".

---

among the 3 singers, 2 are from Hong Kong and 1 is from Thailand. Can one tell by just seeing? (turn off the audio!) [the singers many times appear one by one, but can be seen together at 1:41]

the guy here looks "mixed" to me.

I think you are the one who is confused.i can tell a thai chinese and a native thai(not that a thai chinese isnt native). you are the one who cant tell the difference.

so i simply answered saying thai chinese tend to be fairer and have distinct chinese features but not the native thais

If you read Xng's quote again, he has mentioned that not all local non-Chinese Thai are what he labelled as Tai-Kadai.
Basically, those who have "strong Southeast Asian" features are already labelled by him as "Mon-Khmer" or "Malay".

But the rest... what can one expect? What can a "local Thai without strong Southeast Asian features" look like?

Edited by qrasy, 14 February 2010 - 10:57 AM.

[kinkijon]

People in nothern and north-eastern Thai are mostly tai-kadai's ancestry from southern china. These people speak very much alike people in northen Lao. People in middle and upper south Thai are mixed amongst Mon's, Khmer's, and tai-kadai. People in lower south Thai are majority Malay's. There is NO real Thai ethnic group.

For oversea chinese ancestry they mostly live in cities all over Thai. If you see these thai chinese you will see difference between them and the above. These difference will be less when the above are mixed with oversea chinese's.

[xng]

People in nothern and north-eastern Thai are mostly tai-kadai's ancestry from southern china.

When I was in ChiangMai , I saw a lot of chinese looking people with fair skin. I guess these are the Tai-kadai people ?

In which cities are the Thai chinese concentrated in, other than bangkok ?