39 replies to this topic

[mynahbird]

It's quite unfair to blame the others too. In the US (1800s I think), the Chinese were shunned too. The California Gold Rush prompted the Chinese to flock over to the US in search of a better living. The same happened when the Chinese flocked to Malaya working at tin mines. The Chinese were not at fault either. It's just that there were too many of them. They needed jobs. They needed to feed themselves and their families. They couldn't survive in China and they were forced to compete with the locals in foreign countries for jobs wherever they went. There were just too many Chinese who were competing for jobs until there was no job opportunities left for the others, especially the locals. Imagine people of other countries controlling China's economy instead of the Chinese themselves. Life's unfair, isn't it?

It is not true that there were job competition. The locals the just like today were just not capable of

doing hard labour, that's why immigrants were required.

Today the scenario is repeated, foreign workers have to be recruitd by the millions to do all the hard and low paying jobs.

The locals think they are Arabs and can live of the State, they cant do all the back-breaking jobs and demand high income but

cannot return with high productivity.What they dont realise is that the country depends on the private enterprises to pay taxes to

run the country and they must be run productively, revenue from oil reserves is kept as national reserves.

[mynahbird]

It's quite unfair to blame the others too. In the US (1800s I think), the Chinese were shunned too. The California Gold Rush prompted the Chinese to flock over to the US in search of a better living. The same happened when the Chinese flocked to Malaya working at tin mines. The Chinese were not at fault either. It's just that there were too many of them. They needed jobs. They needed to feed themselves and their families. They couldn't survive in China and they were forced to compete with the locals in foreign countries for jobs wherever they went. There were just too many Chinese who were competing for jobs until there was no job opportunities left for the others, especially the locals. Imagine people of other countries controlling China's economy instead of the Chinese themselves. Life's unfair, isn't it?

In fact foreigners control much of China's economy or for that matter Singapore too.Foreigners earn all the best wages but their presence creates jobs for the locals.Being open is one of the secrets of modern economic success.If China rejects and discriminates against foreigners do you think they will be where they are today?

In this world 3rd world countries cannot afford to be protective they will get isolated.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too, there must be some give and take.

[WuXiaHer0]

Unfortunately your knowledge of Malaysian history is inaccurate.

Unfortunately, we both are.

The British brought with them plantations, mines,industries

etc. with the hard work of immigrants and together built up the infrastructure and modern economy of the country, there were no schools,hospitals,roads,towns,

etc. etc. before the arrival of the British and immigrants. It was the British together with the immigrants who first created and pionerred

the modern economy.

The Chinese were slaves, mind you. Slaves don't deserve more than their masters. It was the Malays that controlled the tin mines. They get Chinese slaves to do the work for them.
The British only improved the mining process and the economy by bringing in machines. The British even used coolies but those poor souls didn't get any credits. Care to explain that?

When the British left everyone agreed to build a modern economy built along the same old lines.it would be nice to imagine what the country

would become without British and immigrant enterprise and technology. It is for the individual to imagine,like Laos?Even after 40 years of affirmative action the locals cannot even look after themselves,does that prove something?

That I can't argue with you. It's true that the British improved the economy.

The history is different from that of China,Australia or America.

The situation is pretty much the same. The only thing is, there were more job opportunities in the past compared to the present (Malaysia). The Malays continued living a traditional lifestyle in the past and that did not pose a problem for the slaves to get jobs in developed areas (ports/mines/shops). It's the 21st century, the Malays are out from their kampungs and into the cities. NOW that's the problem we're talking about.

In fact in 1970 the locals actually demanded that all immigrants be deported, but the rational Pm of the time asked them,can the country survive without the immigrants? They realised their own shortcomings and decided that it was better to continue some form of peaceful co-existence.

Yes, it's true. Everyone is important. The country can't survive without the immigrants but we shouldn't be too cocky either. Without this place, where would the Chinese go? The Chinese faced many difficult situations in life and this is one of them. For now, we should be grateful for what we have. We can't always get what we wished for.

Edited by WuXiaHer0, 05 October 2010 - 03:39 AM.

[mynahbird]

Unfortunately, we both are.


The Chinese were slaves, mind you. Slaves don't deserve more than their masters. It was the Malays that controlled the tin mines. They get Chinese slaves to do the work for them.
The British only improved the mining process and the economy by bringing in machines. The British even used coolies but those poor souls didn't get any credits. Care to explain that?


That I can't argue with you. It's true that the British improved the economy.



The situation is pretty much the same. The only thing is, there were more job opportunities in the past compared to the present (Malaysia). The Malays continued living a traditional lifestyle in the past and that did not pose a problem for the slaves to get jobs in developed areas (ports/mines/shops). It's the 21st century, the Malays are out from their kampungs and into the cities. NOW that's the problem we're talking about.


Yes, it's true. Everyone is important. The country can't survive without the immigrants but we shouldn't be too cocky either. Without this place, where would the Chinese go? The Chinese faced many difficult situations in life and this is one of them. For now, we should be grateful for what we have. We can't always get what we wished for.

Who's demanding anything and who's cocky, we are just trying to set history right. Chinese in Malaysia have been reduced to a minority

and are barely getting by. The future looks dim and if unchecked is unhealthy for everyone going as it is Ina's way.

1) At this moment the Chinese no longer control the economy.Are they in the key sectors like oil and gas or logistics or finance for eg?

2) No one is demanding anything,it is a matter of forgetting the past and moving on to a brave new world instead of blaming others for own
shortcomings. We should not allow others to demoralise us.

3) Why make excuses,call a spade a spade,do people of Thailand blame other people for their shortcomings and make huge demands?

4) Who were the people who built towns like Kuala Lumpur ? Who invested in the development of the country?etc. etc.Who were the early
Engineers,professionals etc who pioneered the development of the country?

5) Where would the Chinese go? Many of them have gone many places since the 70s.

6) Be grateful for a slow lingering death? We pay taxes and dont get much of it in return.its Ok in the 70s but today dont we think
we ought to get a better deal. A lot of people are getting rich,are they giving back to their own people?

7) All I am saying is that we need to be careful how the country is run, all the while with the Chinese presence we are doing OK,
we dont want irrational people to run it out of course until it becomes like Zimbabwe,very calculative and protective where everyone is a
trillionaire.
We need to know where to draw the line so that the country is properly run, I hope you know your Constitution. The country does not
disallow you from deciding how the country is to be run, you have a choice.

[mynahbird]

The situation is pretty much the same. The only thing is, there were more job opportunities in the past compared to the present (Malaysia). The Malays continued living a traditional lifestyle in the past and that did not pose a problem for the slaves to get jobs in developed areas (ports/mines/shops). It's the 21st century, the Malays are out from their kampungs and into the cities. NOW that's the problem we're talking about


Malays were already out of their kampungs since 1970s at the start of the DEB 40 years ago.

[mynahbird]

The Chinese were slaves, mind you. Slaves don't deserve more than their masters. It was the Malays that controlled the tin mines. They get Chinese slaves to do the work for them.
The British only improved the mining process and the economy by bringing in machines. The British even used coolies but those poor souls didn't get any credits. Care to explain that?

Are you sure ALL the Chinese were slaves? What about the traders etc.

What about those left behind by Zheng He to protect Melaka from the Thai Empire?

Anyway the Constitution in 1957 envisaged a country for all as an alternative to the choice of Communism,

it was understood at that time that local people needed some protection to preserve their development, no qualms about that,

what is not needed is extremism, propoganda etc. to short-change people and deprive them of their rights as written in 1957.

[WuXiaHer0]

It is not true that there were job competition. The locals the just like today were just not capable of

doing hard labour, that's why immigrants were required.

I think you're mistaken. There WAS no competition in the PAST for the Malays were still living in atap huts. NOW there is.
If not, how did the Malaysian NEP appear? Why 'May 13' happened?

Today the scenario is repeated, foreign workers have to be recruitd by the millions to do all the hard and low paying jobs.

The locals think they are Arabs and can live of the State, they cant do all the back-breaking jobs and demand high income but

cannot return with high productivity.What they dont realise is that the country depends on the private enterprises to pay taxes to

run the country and they must be run productively, revenue from oil reserves is kept as national reserves.

Not sure what you're trying to imply here.

[WuXiaHer0]

In fact foreigners control much of China's economy or for that matter Singapore too.Foreigners earn all the best wages but their presence creates jobs for the locals.Being open is one of the secrets of modern economic success.If China rejects and discriminates against foreigners do you think they will be where they are today?

In this world 3rd world countries cannot afford to be protective they will get isolated.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too, there must be some give and take.

In a way, they 'control' China's economy by investing. The Malays welcome foreign investors, but they never let the minorities to take the biggest part of the cake. Why? Because we're in MALAYsia. It's something to do with the ketuanan sort of thing.
The Malays have no one to safe guard their culture and language. Even if they are one of the 3rd world countries, they have some one to turn to, such as the Middle East and the neighbouring countries.

[mynahbird]

Unfortunately your knowledge of Malaysian history is inaccurate.

What history are you talking about ,the one people want you to learn?

Were you born during Merdeka?

Did you actually experience history first hand especially on matters that were not recorded down?

Are you sure "official" history is reliable?

I am not trying to distort history just giving it a first hand perspective.

in fact we should all learn to forget the past in order to start a brave new world for the younger generation,

but it is difficult to do if people still hang on to past prejudices and become paranoid and see ghosts and demons everywhere and refuse

to accept that the world has moved on and stop blaming past history.

It is called changing the mind-set.

[mynahbird]

In a way, they 'control' China's economy by investing. The Malays welcome foreign investors, but they never let the minorities to take the biggest part of the cake. Why? Because we're in MALAYsia. It's something to do with the ketuanan sort of thing.
The Malays have no one to safe guard their culture and language. Even if they are one of the 3rd world countries, they have some one to turn to, such as the Middle East and the neighbouring countries.

Have you ever read the Constitution and know your rights and everyone else's right as a citizen.

A lot of extremists are making demands well beyond what was agreed by the various communities when Malaya was founded,

it is breaking the social contract. You have the right to object,as there is no longer anything to lose.

Why allow people to short-change you when you didn't read your contract properly first?

I am not saying that we should be extremists just know your rights,recognise that you have ALLOEWD people

to infringe on your rights.

Even sensible local people well from the 70s know the importance of being moderate and rational, thats why the country is still intact today

unlike say,Zimbabwe or Somalia.

Just dont give in to extremists ,government panders to them because they need their votes to stay in power.

Realise your own self-worth and dignity, of course no one should be cocky, how can we be cocky when we are a minority

and no longer control the economy, it is a myth because all the figures were never updated since 10 years ago.

[WuXiaHer0]

Unfortunately your knowledge of Malaysian history is inaccurate.

Sadly, we both are too.

What history are you talking about ,the one people want you to learn?

No one forced me to learn history. Okay, maybe I did it for the sake of my exam papers. But I am not the one who gives in easily to other people's propagandas. I did my own research and questioned senior citizens who were born way before Tunku Abdul Rahman can yell 'Merdeka' seven times at Stadium Merdeka.

Were you born during Merdeka?

What difference does it make whether I was born before Malaysia gain independence or after that?

Did you actually experience history first hand especially on matters that were not recorded down?

One does not need to "experience" it just to get to know it better.
I suppose if I were to know more about the history of the Ming Dynasty, I should go dig up my ancestors grave and ask them how's life under Emperor Hongwu's reign.

Are you sure "official" history is reliable?

What I said is not "official". It's "true".

I am not trying to distort history just giving it a first hand perspective.

Who said you distorted history? I sure didn't.

in fact we should all learn to forget the past in order to start a brave new world for the younger generation,

but it is difficult to do if people still hang on to past prejudices

I'm just being realistic. You can't change things you don't fancy. You can either just take it or leave it, in this case, leave the place if you know very well you can't even scratch 4D for a living instead of sitting there and grumble.

and become paranoid and see ghosts and demons everywhere and refuse

to accept that the world has moved on and stop blaming past history.

It is called changing the mind-set.

The world has indeed moved on. In fact, it still is. I'm not blaming history. You can't learn anything if you don't learn what history has got to teach you.

Edited by WuXiaHer0, 05 October 2010 - 04:53 AM.

[mynahbird]

In a way, they 'control' China's economy by investing. The Malays welcome foreign investors, but they never let the minorities to take the biggest part of the cake. Why? Because we're in MALAYsia. It's something to do with the ketuanan sort of thing.
The Malays have no one to safe guard their culture and language. Even if they are one of the 3rd world countries, they have some one to turn to, such as the Middle East and the neighbouring countries.

This reminds me of the words of a KUWAIT envoy on why they don't pump money into Malaysia.

He said, money in Kuwait is hard earned, oil reserves will disappear, money from oil needs to be shrewdly

invested to make good returns. WE (Kuwait) cannot afford to throw hard earned money into a well without getting any returns otherwise we would be
broke.

Arabs are not primitive people their Science and Technology precedes even the West.

You cannot expect people to throw money into something that does not bring in returns, that's why
productive and talented people must be given leeway, not the weak ones,we are not a welfare state.

Despite extremist demands would you say money assigned to them have been used productively to earn even more money or are they squandered?

If so it is mismanagement,how long can this be maintained? what happens when the oil runs out?
Who is going to pay taxes to finance the country?

[mynahbird]

I'm just being realistic. You can't change things you don't fancy. You can either just take it or leave it, in this case, leave the place if you know very well you can't even scratch 4D for a living instead of sitting there and grumble.

If i wanted to leave the country i would have done it decades ago.

I am not grumbling, we are talking about looking at things from a different perspective.

Now why should I care when I am all set up, it is the new generation that has to face new challenges.

I have in my time faced similar situations and overcome them. All I am saying is just dont give up so easily, all

is not lost,play your cards right.All this bickering is nothing new it has been going on generation after generation and many people are still doing OK.

i think you should know more about the Constitution, it is not as if society is preventing people from doing so.

Edited by mynahbird, 05 October 2010 - 05:00 AM.

[WuXiaHer0]

Are you sure ALL the Chinese were slaves? What about the traders etc.

I didn't say ALL Chinese were slaves. I'm focusing on the people who worked at the tin mines, in other words, slaves. Do traders work in mines (digging mineral ores)?

What about those left behind by Zheng He to protect Melaka from the Thai Empire?

Those people were in small numbers. Zheng He left those people to look after Hang Li Po and her maids, not protecting Malacca from the Siamese. By forming a diplomatic relationship with Malacca, Siam would think twice before setting foot in Malacca.

Anyway the Constitution in 1957 envisaged a country for all as an alternative to the choice of Communism,

it was understood at that time that local people needed some protection to preserve their development, no qualms about that,

what is not needed is extremism, propoganda etc. to short-change people and deprive them of their rights as written in 1957.

The Malays had been puppets for very long. First came the Portuguese, then the Dutch and finally the British. They wanted to have their own solid ground to stand on. Who can blame them? They've got the right to do whatever they want. It's THEIR land. THEIR rule. Not ours. The government has been lenient enough to let us preserve our identity in Malaysia, unlike Indonesia. Can't you see more and more Chinese are leaving Malaysia? Isn't that successful enough?

[mynahbird]

One does not need to "experience" it just to get to know it better.
I suppose if I were to know more about the history of the Ming Dynasty, I should go dig up my ancestors grave and ask them how's life under Emperor Hongwu's re

A lot of history are conveniently forgotten.

Just as an eg. have you heard of the BMF scandal case? the Mahatir's 70 million policy? Mohamad Abdullah Ang debacle?many many others that some people

would rather forget, if one has lived through that period it can never be erased .

In fact the government is actively encouraging people to learn about the constitution so as to actively participate in the running of the country. There are too many misconceptions from not researching but listening and learning from hearsay.

Edited by mynahbird, 05 October 2010 - 05:12 AM.