9 replies to this topic

[kiwimeetskiwi]

I was thinking, has any of Russia's allies at any point in time ever not fought with Russia at another point in time?

Edited by kiwimeetskiwi, 05 July 2010 - 10:49 AM.

[Yizheng]

I was thinking, has any of Russia's allies at any point in time ever not fought with Russia at another point in time?

I can't think of a case of Armenia fighting against Russia. Also other Orthodox countries such as Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria - I cannot recall them fighting Russia. And there is India, certainly quite a big friend of Russia during the Soviet period, and true, there was Russian-British rivalry and intrigue in India earlier with the Great Game, but Russia and India have not actually fought, and still have pretty strong ties today.

[kiwimeetskiwi]

I can't think of a case of Armenia fighting against Russia. Also other Orthodox countries such as Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria - I cannot recall them fighting Russia. And there is India, certainly quite a big friend of Russia during the Soviet period, and true, there was Russian-British rivalry and intrigue in India earlier with the Great Game, but Russia and India have not actually fought, and still have pretty strong ties today.

But Russia conquered the Democratic Republic of Armenia, didn't they?

[Yizheng]

But Russia conquered the Democratic Republic of Armenia, didn't they?

Well, it's actually a lot more complicated than that. Armenia originally entered into a voluntary alliance with Russia, seeking protection from Turks, Persians, but of course, back in those days governments did not hold national referendums, so we can't really know if the average Armenian actually wanted that. As for Armenia becoming part of the Soviet Union, well, I personally agree with the view that Soviet Union was essentially an empire, not the voluntary 'union of republics' it protrayed itself as, but at the same time, let us also recognise that these republics had their home-grown bolsheviks too, so (to varying degrees, depending on the republic) the process was not all straight out 'conquering'. the situation in the southern caucasus was very complicated at that time, and don't forget that Armenia had only just a few years before gone through the genocide, and it traditionally looked to Russia for protection. Even after the Soviet collapse, when other republics rushed to pull away from Moscow, Armenia after an initial enthusiasm about independence, realised its border with Turkey would be vulnerable, and asked Russian troops to guard it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting there was no colonial-type policy involved, and I'm not a defender of the Soviet Union, but just think we should not make simplistic assessments of what is a very complicated region.
Also, in many former soviet republics, there was anti-Russian feeling afterwards, but in Armenia this was never a problem. Everyone there understands Russian and there is a perfectly friendly attitude towards Russia. Partly, I think it is because Armenia was the most ethnically homogeous of all former Soviet republics, so it avoided a lot of the ethnic tensions that arose in other republics, although there is, of course the problem of Nagorny Karabakh and Nakhichevan.

[Lu Su]

The United States and Russia have never once technically been at war. We only came very close - twice. Once, in Berlin, when Khruschev tested Kennedy with the famous 'Tank Incident', in which both sides knew the other would not allow to escalate into war. Another, was, of course, the 'Cuban Missile Crisis'. But no one's people, or government, ever truly wanted war. Nor was one ever declared, nor is it ever known that any direct American or Russian soldier killed each other on a field of combat. We only entered combat with other countries containing their own versions of communist ideologies and who expanded rapidly. The Soviet Union did the same at times for the spreading Capitalism. So, we may have supported countries more for our pre-dominant politics at the time, but we were never at war directly. And, all that has ended now. No matter for slandering filth without any evidential and logical backing that continues today by media outlets, we are actually as far from war as we ever were.

We were enemies only by politics, never by actual standards clearly defined as such by all logic. Nor have we ever invaded each others land.

I think the US should be included.

[kiwimeetskiwi]

The United States and Russia have never once technically been at war. We only came very close - twice. Once, in Berlin, when Khruschev tested Kennedy with the famous 'Tank Incident', in which both sides knew the other would not allow to escalate into war. Another, was, of course, the 'Cuban Missile Crisis'. But no one's people, or government, ever truly wanted war. Nor was one ever declared, nor is it ever known that any direct American or Russian soldier killed each other on a field of combat. We only entered combat with other countries containing their own versions of communist ideologies and who expanded rapidly. The Soviet Union did the same at times for the spreading Capitalism. So, we may have supported countries more for our pre-dominant politics at the time, but we were never at war directly. And, all that has ended now. No matter for slandering filth without any evidential and logical backing that continues today by media outlets, we are actually as far from war as we ever were.

We were enemies only by politics, never by actual standards clearly defined as such by all logic. Nor have we ever invaded each others land.

I think the US should be included.

But even though the U.S. and the Soviet Union never declared war on each other, it was still called The Cold War.

[kiwimeetskiwi]

I can't think of a case of Armenia fighting against Russia. Also other Orthodox countries such as Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria - I cannot recall them fighting Russia. And there is India, certainly quite a big friend of Russia during the Soviet period, and true, there was Russian-British rivalry and intrigue in India earlier with the Great Game, but Russia and India have not actually fought, and still have pretty strong ties today.

What about the Greek Civil war?

[Lu Su]

But even though the U.S. and the Soviet Union never declared war on each other, it was still called The Cold War.

'The Cold War', and all associated with it, is in the realm of politics - not actual war.

Quote Lu Su - "We were enemies only by politics, never by actual standards clearly defined as such by all logic. Nor have we ever invaded each others land."

[FredHakka]

I was thinking, has any of Russia's allies at any point in time ever not fought with Russia at another point in time?

In 1896 the "Li-Lobanov Treaty" was signed, Russia and China formed an alliance against Japan. At the beginning of the Russo-Japanese War in 1904, China declared neutrality, which means China did not fight with Russia against Japan.

[Lu Su]

@FredHakka^

China had its own problems...and was trying to recover and secure some political solidarity.

Let us not forget as well that in WWII, let alone well before it, Chiang and Mao were too busy and centered on contending over the 'big seat' in China, to even mount a remotely effective resistance to thwart the Japanese invasion, and did little to nothing to help the situation since Japan invaded Manchuria in 1929. This long negligence and inner political struggle gave the Japanese a free hand, and allowed them to solidify their forces while crushing smaller resistance movements among the people. It would be this very tactical and 'need of the moment' negligence between political leaders, that would lead to their near and utter defeat, save the many brave Chinese civilians who were undoubtedly heroes, standing defiantly in the face of such terrible odds and horrors, and later in 1945 when Russia would pour through Mongolia and begin pushing the Japanese out of mainland China in a brilliant series of quick and effective maneuvers.

Edited by Lu Su, 19 July 2010 - 11:02 AM.