22 replies to this topic

[Yeleixingfeng]

With that, I mean wearing Hanfu at no-matter-what occasions, and reverting back to the dressing fashions of before, including long hair for males. And, this should be completely of your own opinion, regardless of what others think. (For example, don't give explanations like - "I think it should, but I don't think the public thinks the same."

Thanks for your time.

Edited by Yeleixingfeng, 15 October 2010 - 05:19 AM.

[brightness]

With that, I mean wearing Hanfu at no-matter-what occasions, and reverting back to the dressing fashions of before, including long hair for males. And, this should be completely of your own opinion, regardless of what others think. (For example, don't give explanations like - "I think it should, but I don't think the public thinks the same."

Thanks for your time.

Is there any law or regulations in China that would prevent a person from showing up in Hanfu?
I have seen pictures of some Chinese schools having explicit bans against long hairs. I chalk that up as old authoritarian habits dying hard. It seems to me that government should have no role in deciding what people would like to wear for themselves, so long as they are not running around fully naked in public.

[Yeleixingfeng]

Is there any law or regulations in China that would prevent a person from showing up in Hanfu?
I have seen pictures of some Chinese schools having explicit bans against long hairs. I chalk that up as old authoritarian habits dying hard. It seems to me that government should have no role in deciding what people would like to wear for themselves, so long as they are not running around fully naked in public.

Haha, I am in one of those 'old authoritarian' schools. LOL.

The thing is, why Hanfu is not favoured nowadays? I understand that wearing Hanfu is not against the rule, but it is defintiely against the norm... Despite wanting to, it would look weird, showing up in Hanfu.

[xng]

With that, I mean wearing Hanfu at no-matter-what occasions, and reverting back to the dressing fashions of before, including long hair for males. And, this should be completely of your own opinion, regardless of what others think. (For example, don't give explanations like - "I think it should, but I don't think the public thinks the same."

Thanks for your time.

There is already a thread of Hanfu revival in this forum.


Wiki has another entry
http://en.wikipedia..../Hanfu_movement

[mariusj]

Remember, you always want to go from complicated to simple, that is the trend of all things. There is a reason why people switched to 'Hu fu'

[JohnD]

Remember, you always want to go from complicated to simple, that is the trend of all things. There is a reason why people switched to 'Hu fu'

I would say wearing hanfu all the time would be simpler than having to pick from the myriad other choices of clothing popular nowadays.

[polar_zen]

I don't understand why people think the Hanfu is so cumbersome and inconvenient. People in the old days were far more active than they are now anyway. Most of us in modern times just sit behind a computer/read. Besides, not all the hanfu are like the ones you see in paintings. Those were for the aristocracy and shcolars. Commoners wore a much simpler version.

[mariusj]

I don't understand why people think the Hanfu is so cumbersome and inconvenient. People in the old days were far more active than they are now anyway. Most of us in modern times just sit behind a computer/read. Besides, not all the hanfu are like the ones you see in paintings. Those were for the aristocracy and shcolars. Commoners wore a much simpler version.

Its not necessary that cumbersome and inconvenient, but its more cumbersome and inconvenient compare to Hufu. Although, I think there is some sort of confusion here.
I am uncertain when we say hanfu, do we use that interchangeable as Huafu? I know for certain that aristocracy and scholars wear Huafu. Now as for commoners, there are also some separations. For example, peasants uses hemp, so these aren't huafu, is that hanfu? Though even if it is I probably would rather face arrest then to wear them. On the other hand, merchants wear something more stylish though I remember imperial codes prevented them from dressing as gentries, but I don't believe they would wear something like peasants. I am guessing you are talking not about the merchant and not about the peasants, but the craftsmen. I actually have no idea what they wear. I am guessing above hemp and below silk.

I would say wearing hanfu all the time would be simpler than having to pick from the myriad other choices of clothing popular nowadays.

Are you saying T-shirt and genes are less simple then Hanfu?

Picking a style shouldn't be add in to this discussion. Picking from a thousand different colors and styles of T-shirts should be the same as picking from a thousand different colors and styles of Hanfu.

[JohnD]

Are you saying T-shirt and genes are less simple then Hanfu?

Picking a style shouldn't be add in to this discussion. Picking from a thousand different colors and styles of T-shirts should be the same as picking from a thousand different colors and styles of Hanfu.

T-shirt and jeans are simpler than hanfu, but T-shirt and jeans are not the only popular fashions today.

Anyway, I think the time has passed for hanfu. I don't think hanfu will ever be regarded as more than a period costume now, except among the few who choose to wear them regularly. Seeing someone in hanfu will always be like seeing someone dressed up for Halloween, I think.

[Yeleixingfeng]

Its not necessary that cumbersome and inconvenient, but its more cumbersome and inconvenient compare to Hufu. Although, I think there is some sort of confusion here.
I am uncertain when we say hanfu, do we use that interchangeable as Huafu? I know for certain that aristocracy and scholars wear Huafu. Now as for commoners, there are also some separations. For example, peasants uses hemp, so these aren't huafu, is that hanfu? Though even if it is I probably would rather face arrest then to wear them. On the other hand, merchants wear something more stylish though I remember imperial codes prevented them from dressing as gentries, but I don't believe they would wear something like peasants. I am guessing you are talking not about the merchant and not about the peasants, but the craftsmen. I actually have no idea what they wear. I am guessing above hemp and below silk.


Are you saying T-shirt and genes are less simple then Hanfu?

Picking a style shouldn't be add in to this discussion. Picking from a thousand different colors and styles of T-shirts should be the same as picking from a thousand different colors and styles of Hanfu.

Of course, different people may choose for different clothing. A peasant who wants to look like a merchant can of course do so. I do not expect to be as traditionally organised as the ancients, in how they classify people according to their clothing.
T-shirt and jeans are, I admit, simpler than Hanfu from the looks of it. But, who can be sure - have you tried on a Hanfu?

T-shirt and jeans are simpler than hanfu, but T-shirt and jeans are not the only popular fashions today.

Anyway, I think the time has passed for hanfu. I don't think hanfu will ever be regarded as more than a period costume now, except among the few who choose to wear them regularly. Seeing someone in hanfu will always be like seeing someone dressed up for Halloween, I think.

I agree - being in Hanfu would always earn/attract attention. And, I understand hanfu is regarded as a period costume, but actually hanfu had been worn for longer than history could record. From Shang to Ming plenty might have changed, but the core concept of a hanfu has not waver. Hence in comparison clothes we are wearing now are, instead, the so-called period costumes. Perhaps not so for Westerners, but definitely Western clothing, no matter how long they existed before the Chinese were exposed to it, are just a twentieth (maximum) of our recorded history.
If there really is a Hanfu fever around your area, would you wear it around?
And, for the ambiguity as to which type of Hanfu I am referring to, I mean anything that has the shape/concept of a Hanfu regardless of its different cutting and embroideries. (Notice how Qipao is completely different in concept.)

[JohnD]

Of course, different people may choose for different clothing. A peasant who wants to look like a merchant can of course do so. I do not expect to be as traditionally organised as the ancients, in how they classify people according to their clothing.
T-shirt and jeans are, I admit, simpler than Hanfu from the looks of it. But, who can be sure - have you tried on a Hanfu?


I agree - being in Hanfu would always earn/attract attention. And, I understand hanfu is regarded as a period costume, but actually hanfu had been worn for longer than history could record. From Shang to Ming plenty might have changed, but the core concept of a hanfu has not waver. Hence in comparison clothes we are wearing now are, instead, the so-called period costumes. Perhaps not so for Westerners, but definitely Western clothing, no matter how long they existed before the Chinese were exposed to it, are just a twentieth (maximum) of our recorded history.
If there really is a Hanfu fever around your area, would you wear it around?
And, for the ambiguity as to which type of Hanfu I am referring to, I mean anything that has the shape/concept of a Hanfu regardless of its different cutting and embroideries. (Notice how Qipao is completely different in concept.)

Although I like the look of hanfu, I wouldn't wear one because I'm Caucasian, and I think that a white person in hanfu always looks strange, so I personally wouldn't wear one.

[Jaak]

Although I like the look of hanfu, I wouldn't wear one because I'm Caucasian, and I think that a white person in hanfu always looks strange, so I personally wouldn't wear one.

What was the practice of Tang dynasty?

I mean, Manchu of Qing, Mongols of Yuan and Churchen of Jin defined themselves as foreigners and enacted laws to keep their distinctive clothing and/or impose it on Chinese. The Ming were pretty suspicious and hostile to foreigners and did not govern much of Mongolia, so Mongol subjects/immigrants were few and unwelcome in China. And Song did not rule much of the steppes either.

But Tang dynasty, whatever the actual family relationships of Li family were, defined themselves as Chinese. And they ruled the steppes, all the way to Central Asia. Seems that early Tang was the last time China was welcoming immigrants from far and wide.

Were the foreigners in Changan court allowed to keep their national dress, or urged/required to adopt Chinese dress?

[mohistManiac]

What do you mean wearing at no matter what occasions? At funerals, one would hardly be expected to wear bright seductive colors as was the unique feature of ancient Chinese hanfu generally speaking. I think it's already been revived in Chinese opera centers showing ancient Tang dynasty dancing styles and music so that would make it like ballet clothing. To fully revive hanfu would make it something of haute couture, not everyone can afford the quality craftsmanship each garb contains. Hanfu is supposed to be particularly grand reflecting the high marks of Chinese arts rather than to have hanfu look like the base rags worn by most people at the time. Maybe the head women of each household can afford one and advance the prestige of the clothing by passing the clothing as heirloom from mother to daughter tracing it from family to family like I assume how Japanese kimono has endured and resisted change.

[mariusj]

What was the practice of Tang dynasty?

I mean, Manchu of Qing, Mongols of Yuan and Churchen of Jin defined themselves as foreigners and enacted laws to keep their distinctive clothing and/or impose it on Chinese. The Ming were pretty suspicious and hostile to foreigners and did not govern much of Mongolia, so Mongol subjects/immigrants were few and unwelcome in China. And Song did not rule much of the steppes either.

But Tang dynasty, whatever the actual family relationships of Li family were, defined themselves as Chinese. And they ruled the steppes, all the way to Central Asia. Seems that early Tang was the last time China was welcoming immigrants from far and wide.

Were the foreigners in Changan court allowed to keep their national dress, or urged/required to adopt Chinese dress?

It really depends on how you look at things. I don't like a lot of the generalizations but I guess a lot of them cannot be avoided. When the Manchus form Qing with capital at Beijing, Mongols formed Yuan at Dadu [Beijing] and Jurchens/Manchus formed Jin in Huining, they are all contending to be the rightful ruler of all that is under heaven, and claims the mandate of heaven. There are no ethnic states back then, so they may be foreign to people of local population but 1) are they foreigners? 2) do they define themselves as foreigners?

Much like European monarchies rule by Divine Rights [by the Grace of God King/Queen _________ of ______ etc] anyone who wishes to rule what we today calls China, they must also justify their rules, which is in raw terms, he who follows the will of the heaven, and the unstoppable current of fate[天命，運], that they did not rule b/c of their abilities, capabilities, power, wealth, prestige, etc etc, but rather they rule b/c it is unavoidable, it is the only and true way. Therefore, are they foreigners? How can one who rule, with mandate from heaven through the will of heaven and the unstoppable current of fate, be 1) foreigners, and 2) define themselves as foreigners? They won't. Now, whether or not there are resistance to their rule should not be taken into account when we are talking about whether or not they are recognized as rightful and proper 'citizen' of this non-ethnic state. Much as there are resistance to Han dynasty, Ming dynasty and any other ethnic and non ethnic states, there are always rebels of some form.

Then, on what cloth and attire the Manchus forced the conquered people to wear, should exactly tell you what they think of themselves, as the proper ruler who DO NOT want to be identified as foreign - how do you identify someone as foreign except from their looks and attire? So their attitude and intention is exactly the opposite, their goal is actually to present themselves as the same as their subject [we are not talking about whether Manchus Hans Mongols, but rather are these people foreign to the kingdom that rule all beneath heaven, with the sagely king who follows the will and fate].

As for whether or not Ming was suspicious of foreigners, I would disagree on the account simply b/c Ming employs many people of DIFFERENT SKIN COLORS. If you can tolerate people who worship a completely different set of religious text, who looks nothing like you, have nothing in common with you, you can tolerate people who are Asian.

And you should know that there are no national dress code. There are merely social norms. If you wish to be accepted by people as civilized, you need to follow that norm. I would say that 'Han' is more culture then bloodline, and one major thing about Han is proper attire and education.

[mariusj]

What do you mean wearing at no matter what occasions? At funerals, one would hardly be expected to wear bright seductive colors as was the unique feature of ancient Chinese hanfu generally speaking. I think it's already been revived in Chinese opera centers showing ancient Tang dynasty dancing styles and music so that would make it like ballet clothing. To fully revive hanfu would make it something of haute couture, not everyone can afford the quality craftsmanship each garb contains. Hanfu is supposed to be particularly grand reflecting the high marks of Chinese arts rather than to have hanfu look like the base rags worn by most people at the time. Maybe the head women of each household can afford one and advance the prestige of the clothing by passing the clothing as heirloom from mother to daughter tracing it from family to family like I assume how Japanese kimono has endured and resisted change.

I think colors are regulated back then. Its kind of like Romans, where what class can wear what color. I also think colors are political atmosphere dependent. [I think each dynasty have a color of their own, and a color that they dislike, also due to birth death etc etc colors are regulated.]