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Should Hanfu be revived?


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Poll: Should Hanfu be revived? (12 member(s) have cast votes)

Should Hanfu fully be revived? (Please elaborate.)

  1. Absolutely YES! (6 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. If adjustments were made, yes. (5 votes [41.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.67%

  3. There are pros and cons that make it hard to decide (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Absolutely NOT! (1 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

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#16 mohistManiac

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 07:07 PM

I think colors are regulated back then. Its kind of like Romans, where what class can wear what color. I also think colors are political atmosphere dependent. [I think each dynasty have a color of their own, and a color that they dislike, also due to birth death etc etc colors are regulated.]


So there would have been a hanfu for each separate event. But in modern times there is no hanfu for riding a bicycle so what does one do? I fear for practitioners of hanfu that want to revive this cultural aspect because they merely want to wear the garments as a way to show off their knowledge of the styles rather than to promote the entire lifestyle associated alongside hanfu. Hanfu would entail laborious tea ceremonies, eating would be a chore since you have to eat slow and prevent anything from spilling onto yourself. Hanfu would have meant limited mobility since the sleeves were so long that it made it impractical to do anything that wasn't scholarly related or very esoteric/flowery type dancing. If ancient Chinese performance and lifestyle is what you are expecting then it would suit the purposes of wearing hanfu all the time on all occasions. I actually like hanfu so I'm not making unrelated remarks to make myself seem uninterested but I doubt the "wear it all the time" kind of lifestyle in modern times without lots of adjustment to the designs.

I have the fortune of living in the part of the world which has use for toilet paper, but not douches.


#17 polar_zen

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 10:43 PM

So there would have been a hanfu for each separate event. But in modern times there is no hanfu for riding a bicycle so what does one do?


What do you mean? People wore Hanfu when riding on horseback, which is at least as difficult as riding a bike...and if not then what did they wear in Imperial China when riding horses?
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#18 llwk1990

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 01:53 AM

To be honest, I was very close to picking "with adjustments made, yes", however the "Absolutely!" bit really brought home how much I want to revive this, including other parts of Chinese culture. When I hear "Chinese" music being played with western instruments/styles/mixes, when I see western designed skyscrapers and buildings, when I see Simplfied Chinese, etc. I just wonder where Chinese culture is headed.

It really depends. During daily life, yes, there needs to be adaptations and adjustments (e.g. adding pockets, zips, maybe cutting length a bit here and there, etc.), however for more traditional and formal occasions, you should keep a more traditional style. I mean, look at western fashion. Informal wear is very different and modernised as compared to the more traditional, conservative formal wear.

However, people should be given a choice on what they want to wear, especially hairstyles (I just don't like long hair -_-).

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#19 mariusj

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 04:49 AM

I honestly don't believe people would called what you wear while riding Hanfu, but again, there is a confusion in what do you mean by 'hanfu.'

While people do ride horses prior to the adoption of Hufu, I think it is different from your normal wears. So either everything people wear are considered Hanfu, which then indeed does suggests people wears Hanfu while riding.

The reason why I keep on bring up the idea why there is a confusion of what is Hanfu, is b/c through out Chinese history, there are strong exchange of 'fashion' sense b/w the civilized and the barbarians, while King Wulin of Zhao enforced the adoption of Hufu, while Emperor XiaoWen of Northern Wei enforced Hanfu, the interactions b/w these are too strong to distinctively say this is Hanfu, simply b/c there really isn't a 'Han'fu that people think of.

The scholar Shengkuo said, 中國衣冠,自北齊以來,乃全用胡服。窄袖、緋綠短衣、長靿靴、有鞢躞帶,皆胡服也。窄袖利於馳射,短衣、長靿皆便於涉草。胡人樂茂草,常寢處其間,予使北時皆見之,雖王庭亦在深薦中。
China's clothing, since the time of Northern Qi, are all using Hufu, he does go on and say that there are many adaption and changes in these clothing.

So when people say I want to revive Hanfu, it creates this confusion, so what do you mean by Hanfu? Emperor Lin of Eastern Han wears Hufu all the time, and many people in his court, follows suit. So it is really silly for me to hear people talk about revive Hanfu, what Hanfu are you talking about? Do we go back to Tang dynasty? Or perhaps Han dynasty? Or perhaps Spring-Autumn?

Of course, people could be just using Hanfu in the most generic way possible, clothes that average ancient Chinese people wear, and I can also accept that definition but that do bring to mind that ancient Chinese culture is a elitist culture . . . . .

Edited by mariusj, 22 October 2010 - 05:17 AM.


#20 Yeleixingfeng

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 09:46 AM

What was the practice of Tang dynasty?

I mean, Manchu of Qing, Mongols of Yuan and Churchen of Jin defined themselves as foreigners and enacted laws to keep their distinctive clothing and/or impose it on Chinese. The Ming was pretty suspicious and hostile to foreigners and did not govern much of Mongolia, so Mongol subjects/immigrants were few and unwelcome in China. And Song did not rule much of the steppes either.

But Tang dynasty, whatever the actual family relationships of Li family were, defined themselves as Chinese. And they ruled the steppes, all the way to Central Asia. Seems that early Tang was the last time China was welcoming immigrants from far and wide.

Were the foreigners in Changan court allowed to keep their national dress, or urged/required to adopt Chinese dress?

I understand your point, but that is not about how the Chinese themselves should be dressed, unless you are proposing that Chinese intends to promote hanfu (which is impossible).

What do you mean wearing at no matter what occasions? At funerals, one would hardly be expected to wear bright seductive colors as was the unique feature of ancient Chinese hanfu generally speaking. I think it's already been revived in Chinese opera centers showing ancient Tang dynasty dancing styles and music so that would make it like ballet clothing. To fully revive hanfu would make it something of haute couture, not everyone can afford the quality craftsmanship each garb contains. Hanfu is supposed to be particularly grand reflecting the high marks of Chinese arts rather than to have hanfu look like the base rags worn by most people at the time. Maybe the head women of each household can afford one and advance the prestige of the clothing by passing the clothing as heirloom from mother to daughter tracing it from family to family like I assume how Japanese kimono has endured and resisted change.

Curiously, wearing plain during funerals was a tradition passed down from our ancestors, when Hanfu was the only recognised fashion sense. Besides, colours are dyed onto the cloth - you choose your colours.
I suppose if silk-making was popularised and the idea of hanfu firmly established, affordable hanfu would certainly pop up in the market. Besides, not every Hanfu needs to feature at least some embroidery. Plain hanfu is nice enough on its own, what with its graceful cutting and (if possible) light material.

So there would have been a hanfu for each separate event. But in modern times there is no hanfu for riding a bicycle so what does one do? I fear for practitioners of hanfu that want to revive this cultural aspect because they merely want to wear the garments as a way to show off their knowledge of the styles rather than to promote the entire lifestyle associated alongside hanfu. Hanfu would entail laborious tea ceremonies, eating would be a chore since you have to eat slow and prevent anything from spilling onto yourself. Hanfu would have meant limited mobility since the sleeves were so long that it made it impractical to do anything that wasn't scholarly related or very esoteric/flowery type dancing. If ancient Chinese performance and lifestyle is what you are expecting then it would suit the purposes of wearing hanfu all the time on all occasions. I actually like hanfu so I'm not making unrelated remarks to make myself seem uninterested but I doubt the "wear it all the time" kind of lifestyle in modern times without lots of adjustment to the designs.

What do you mean? People wore Hanfu when riding on horseback, which is at least as difficult as riding a bike...and if not then what did they wear in Imperial China when riding horses?

Somehow I think the restrictions Hanfu brings cultivate one’s grace and politeness as Hanfu wearers have to eat slowly and courteously. Besides, there exists convenient hanfu especially designed for commoners. (The sleeves are not long and elaborate.)
I believe if one gets used to wearing Hanfu, he might even actually think that wearing T-shirt and jeans are inconveniently light. It is all about habits.

To be honest, I was very close to picking "with adjustments made, yes", however the "Absolutely!" bit really brought home how much I want to revive this, including other parts of Chinese culture. When I hear "Chinese" music being played with western instruments/styles/mixes, when I see western designed skyscrapers and buildings, when I see Simplified Chinese, etc. I just wonder where Chinese culture is headed.

It really depends. During daily life, yes, there needs to be adaptations and adjustments (e.g. adding pockets, zips, maybe cutting length a bit here and there, etc.), however for more traditional and formal occasions, you should keep a more traditional style. I mean, look at western fashion. Informal wear is very different and modernised as compared to the more traditional, conservative formal wear.

However, people should be given a choice on what they want to wear, especially hairstyles (I just don't like long hair -_-).

Rgds
Weng

I absolutely agree with you! I hate it when Chinese music is played with western instruments, especially when they think doing so is promoting Chinese music!
I agree in that pockets are mandatory. (By the way, I wonder where those ancients keep their belongings when they stuff things into their sleeves…) But zips might be a little bit too much though…

The ultimate aim for reviving Hanfu is to revive the Chinese thinking more directly, in my opinion. It would be hard to promote our culture if there are no significant changes in our lives. I think, wearing Hanfu more or less reminds you of those courtesy, and how you should behave so as to act like a real Chinese.
I do not disagree with the ways of the West; it is just that when Chinese threw away their old values for those of Western, they took only the bad and not the good. And, Chinese have been living by those values for millennia, without which Chinese are empty.

I honestly don't believe people would called what you wear while riding Hanfu, but again, there is a confusion in what do you mean by 'hanfu.'

So when people say I want to revive Hanfu, it creates this confusion, so what do you mean by Hanfu? Emperor Lin of Eastern Han wears Hufu all the time, and many people in his court, follows suit. So it is really silly for me to hear people talk about revive Hanfu, what Hanfu are you talking about? Do we go back to Tang dynasty? Or perhaps Han dynasty? Or perhaps Spring-Autumn?

Of course, people could be just using Hanfu in the most generic way possible, clothes that average ancient Chinese people wear, and I can also accept that definition but that do bring to mind that ancient Chinese culture is a elitist culture . . . . .

The British was also once an elitist culture, look what has evolved from it now? A culture is alive when it is growing together with its people. When it ceases to, it is dead. We need to revive ours so that it can continue to grow in our modern world. Hanfu had changed a lot during its span of millennia, and I agree confusions arises as to which Hanfu are we talking about. Nonetheless I thought I mentioned it before - it is the overall concept of Hanfu that I emphasize. It really matters little as to whether to include a lash or an outer wearing, V-shaped collar or U. The property of being conservative yet sexy, being extravagant yet comfortable (for the richer ones), I reckon these are the rules that (almost) never change throughout history. Styles may come and fade, but definitely not the main idea. Compare our modern clothes - upperwear and bottomwear. The styles might vary according to different designers - both might combine to form a dress, some might include pockets in the bottomwear, some at the upperwear. However, the outline, the big idea does not change much.
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#21 Jaak

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 03:39 PM

And you should know that there are no national dress code. There are merely social norms. If you wish to be accepted by people as civilized, you need to follow that norm.


Jin dynasty certainly had a national dress code. Under the laws, Churchen were explicitly forbidden to adopt "Chinese dress". If individual Churchen did so, they faced not merely social disapproval, but some form of legal punishment. The Chinese were not ordered to change to Churchen clothing so the Jin government could define who was Jurchen and could be punished for wearing Chinese clothes.

Also the various Chinese dynasties had formal dress code for officials of various ranks. The government could punish an official who wore the dress of higher ranking official or emperor, or a private person who did so.

#22 mariusj

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 07:07 PM

Jin dynasty certainly had a national dress code. Under the laws, Churchen were explicitly forbidden to adopt "Chinese dress". If individual Churchen did so, they faced not merely social disapproval, but some form of legal punishment. The Chinese were not ordered to change to Churchen clothing so the Jin government could define who was Jurchen and could be punished for wearing Chinese clothes.

Also the various Chinese dynasties had formal dress code for officials of various ranks. The government could punish an official who wore the dress of higher ranking official or emperor, or a private person who did so.


I think you meant Northern Wei, during the time of Emperor Xiaowen of Northern Wei, during his reign, he strength his rule and ordered a series of changes, one of which was to assimilate Xianbei with Han by forcing dress code and life styles, though that period is very brief, and I don't think its a national dress code since he was pushing for his court to dress, speak, learn Han culture.

I sense that when you say national dress code, you meant it kind of like school dress code that applies to everyone, which is not so in China. For example, you are talking about official dress code, that is nothing like a national dress code, it is like in the US, you cannot wear military uniform with decoration or police uniform b/c you are impersonating military or police personnel, does that mean the US have a dress code? No.

#23 X `

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Posted 19 July 2011 - 12:13 AM

I believe that reviving the usage of Hanfu for formal or important occasions is perfectly acceptable. After all, the Japanese wear kimonos on a regular basis, especially at important events. Arabs still wear their traditional garb for both business and other occasions, even when they come to Western and Eastern countries, even for meetings between leaders of nations.

There is nothing wrong with wearing Hanfu to promote traditional Han-Chinese culture.
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