9 replies to this topic

[ghostexorcist]

I just finished watching an episode of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms tv show in my Three Kingdoms class. It was where Ma Su failed to defend Jieting and was subsequently executed by Zhuge Liang. Ma was tied to an upright post and beheaded off scene. Is that how beheadings were done in China? You would think having the person lay horizontally or at least bent over would be more efficient. Also, what type of sword would be used to sever the head from the neck: jian or dao? Did the method change over the centuries or was it basically the same throughout dynastic China?

Executed prisoners in Canton (B.W. Kilburn, c. 1901)

Edited by ghostexorcist, 29 November 2010 - 12:58 PM.

[ghostexorcist]

This website has a lot of early 20th century pictures of beheadings in China: http://beheadedart.com/ (WARNING! It's not for the faint of heart)

A lot of the beheadings seem to be done in a kneeling position with various kinds of dao. But this only answers my question as far as modern methods go.

Edited by ghostexorcist, 29 November 2010 - 01:32 PM.

[ZhaoLieHuangDi]

There is this one from the Qin dynasty which I heard of. It's called 五馬分屍... i forgot what it's called in English.

Basically, the prisoner is tied to horses (1 for each limb, the fifth horse for his head). and the horses would sprint towards it's respective direction (eg. if a horse faces up, it goes up) and the prisoner would be stretched, until his limbs and his head get ripped apart into five sections..... ewwww

It may not be beheading, but by death penalties, definitely involves the head.

here's a picture if you're really interested in knowing (a link)
http://img67.imagesh...us/f/13um8.png/

[ghostexorcist]

There is this one from the Qin dynasty which I heard of. It's called 五馬分屍... i forgot what it's called in English.

Basically, the prisoner is tied to horses (1 for each limb, the fifth horse for his head). and the horses would sprint towards it's respective direction (eg. if a horse faces up, it goes up) and the prisoner would be stretched, until his limbs and his head get ripped apart into five sections..... ewwww

It may not be beheading, but by death penalties, definitely involves the head.

here's a picture if you're really interested in knowing (a link)
http://img67.imagesh...us/f/13um8.png/

That is known as "quartering" in English. I didn't realize the Chinese did that as well. I guess any civilization with horses could do it.

[WuXiaHer0]

You would think having the person lay horizontally or at least bent over would be more efficient.

You can hack off the condemned's head with ease if you let him lie horizontally just like the guillotine. It ends the victim's life faster. If you let the victim bend over a little, he will fall to the ground along with the blade when it is swung downwards. Hence, the impact won't be great enough to sever the head and that poor guy will suffer a rather painful death. It's quite messy to clean up too.

Also, what type of sword would be used to sever the head from the neck: jian or dao?

Upon further inspection on those heads, only a heavy blade with one sharp edge can make that clean slice. The jian works fine but you need a lot of power to cause some damage. It's like woodcutters using axes to chop down trees instead of using a thin piece of blade. Human bones are said to be stronger than concrete.
I've seen many historical dramas and the robust executioners always use the dao or some thingamajig which have only one sharp edge. The jian is a gentleman's weapon. Therefore, I can't see why the act of beheading should involve an elegant blade. The jian is more for stabbing than hacking off limbs or heads. It's too brittle compared to the dao.

It is said that the Japanese generals had a game of hacking off heads of Chinese war victims in the shortest amount of time during the Nanjing Massacre. They all used katanas. A katana and a dao share one similarity - one sharp edge. And that makes slicing real easy and clean.

Did the method change over the centuries or was it basically the same throughout dynastic China?

Well, ZhaoLieHuangDi mentioned quartering.
Ooooh, there was one. It's called slow-slicing. This method of execution stopped somewhere around the Qing Dynasty, I think... And you have hanging with a simple cord/rope. (Note that many concubines and other historical female figures were hanged, not beheaded. Males faced rather gory punishments.) Oh yeah, and you have poisoning too.

[ghostexorcist]

Upon further inspection on those heads, only a heavy blade with one sharp edge can make that clean slice. The jian works fine but you need a lot of power to cause some damage. It's like woodcutters using axes to chop down trees instead of using a thin piece of blade. Human bones are said to be stronger than concrete.
I've seen many historical dramas and the robust executioners always use the dao or some thingamajig which have only one sharp edge. The jian is a gentleman's weapon. Therefore, I can't see why the act of beheading should involve an elegant blade. The jian is more for stabbing than hacking off limbs or heads. It's too brittle compared to the dao.

It is said that the Japanese generals had a game of hacking off heads of Chinese war victims in the shortest amount of time during the Nanjing Massacre. They all used katanas. A katana and a dao share one similarity - one sharp edge. And that makes slicing real easy and clean.

I was referring to the more robust jian used by the military. These had a heavier blade and a sharper point.

[WuXiaHer0]

I was referring to the more robust jian used by the military. These had a heavier blade and a sharper point.

I did some search and I think you might be interested in this. Yes, the jian was used some time ago during the Qing but it wasn't the military type or the more elegant ones. It's very rare and it was made just for beheading only.





I also found out that in Europe, the double-edged sword was the norm for decapitation.

The dao was also used. Check this out.



A public execution in China some where around the 1900s. That executioner was holding a dao.


I got all these information from here: http://forum.grtc.or....php?f=15&t=499 I hope that helps.

Edited by WuXiaHer0, 02 December 2010 - 10:09 AM.

[WuXiaHer0]

I found many executioner's swords. I thought maybe you want to have a look at them.

These three were used during the Boxer rebellion.








I remember watching an episode about Justice Bao. He sentenced a murderer to death and the executioner used some sort of device that looks very much like a paper cutter to behead him. I have also seen such devices used in many historical dramas.

From Wikipedia:

A paper cutter as described below is different from what is called a "guillotine" cutter, which is also known as a "stack cutter". The former is designed to cut large blocks of paper in one motion in an action resembling the execution device, the primary difference being the blade, or knife. The blade on the execution device fell vertically, and was angled for a clean cut through the victim's neck. The stack paper cutting blade is straight across, but as the handle is depressed to cut the paper block, the blade moves slightly from right to left while moving down through the block.

The paper cutter was invented by Massiquot in 1844.

Edited by WuXiaHer0, 02 December 2010 - 10:25 AM.

[ghostexorcist]

Thanks for the info. The jian designed for beheading looks very interesting. I've never seen such a weapon before.

[William O'Chee]

That is known as "quartering" in English. I didn't realize the Chinese did that as well. I guess any civilization with horses could do it.

No quartering did not involve horses.

Quartering was the third part of an execution method known as hanging, drawing and quartering, and most commonly applied to those convicted of high treason in England.

First the condemned was half hanged, usually from a gibbet. However, the neck was not broken, but they were left hanging so as to almost choke. it was important that the condemned was left alive at this point for the following stage of execution.

Next, they were taken down and laid out, and had their abdomen cut open and their entrails pulled out in front of them. The entrails were often burnt at this point. Somewhere about now the condemned usually died.

Finally, the corpse was cut into four parts, and those parts sent to different points of the kingdom to be displayed over city gates. Usually one portion was sent their county of origin. Note, because high treason was a conviction imposed by Act of Attainder, it almost inevitably applied only to nobles. Commoners involved in rebellion would normally be cut down on the spot of battle, or summarily executed shortly after capture.

Also, note that there were some creative variations on the theme.



When Hugh Le Despenser the Younger was executed, he was hanged from a ladder. This enabled the executioners to perform an additional humiliation. His genitals were cut from him and stuffed in his mouth. Queen Isabella reportedly insisted on this because he was also convicted of sodomising the king.