9 replies to this topic

[Yeleixingfeng]

As stated in the topic, I am looking for a website which teaches Vietnamese grammar and vocabulary. I searched all the book stores in my area but to no avail, short of some Vietnamese phrasebook. Thanks in advance, hoping to be able to read and write (not speak >.<) before end of next year.

[SkllZ]

Well.. I think for vocabulary, since you already know Chinese then start with Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary.
http://www.scribd.co...5-Han-tu-co-ban
http://www.viethoc.o...ukinh_rev-1.pdf

They have the same meaning and the writing is closed to pin yin (I assume that you already knew how to write and read Vietnamese scripts)
There're this 2 forums. I think they would help you more than I do:

http://www.vn520.org/@forum/
Vietnamese students in Taiwan

http://diendanhanngu.com/default.asp
Chinese learning forum

You can ask them in Chinese.. I don't know how to teach you Vietnamese grammar as for me I feel it's very closed to Chinese grammar.
If you know nothing and start from scratch then you should begin with learning Vietnamese pin yin (Quốc Ngữ)

Edited by SkllZ, 23 December 2010 - 03:04 AM.

[Yeleixingfeng]

If you know nothing and start from scratch then you should begin with learning Vietnamese pin yin (Quốc Ngữ)

Thanks for your suggestions!

Anyway, I bought a Vietnamese phrase book (cuz no one replied me T_T), and decided to decipher the meaning from there. With much success though, but the problem is the Quoc Ngu. (This type-Vietnamese programme is not installed in Windows? Is there no ways to type Vietnamese without the Internet?) I find the tones quite similar - I listened to the link you gave me. Was he you? Anyway, I will try to fix something out. ^^

Like, I said I don't plan to speak, because, as my parents have so eagerly agreed, Vietnamese is really not that useful in future. Sorry, don't take any offence. Please try to prove me wrong.

[qrasy]

I think WinVNKey is good, you can download it to type Vietnamese. http://winvnkey.sourceforge.net/
It doesn't conflict with Chinese typing, and the settings of the input method can also be changed.

And I'm not sure how one can write complete sentences without being able to speak the language.

Edited by qrasy, 23 December 2010 - 03:37 PM.

[SkllZ]

I never read any Vietnamese phrase books before but I heard from people it's useless. They try to read what inside the book and local people can't understand.
Yea. Quoc Ngu is different with pin yin. I know how hard it is (Haha, remind me of the time i learned pin yin. I messed the two up real good).
What do you mean without the internet?? I'm using Unikey. Go to Mở rộng and unstick Vietnamese interface, it will switch to English language.

http://www.unikey.org/

Haha. Well, if you're interested in it then you should learn how to speak it. There's no right or wrong here. When I study Cantonese, I don't ask myself if it's useful. I study because I enjoy it.

I have some phrases that Vietnamese and Chinese share together. Hope it helps.

同意 = tong yi = đồng ý
感恩 = gan en = cảm ơn (thank you, not really in chinese though)
關心 = guan xin = quan tâm
拜拜 = bai bai = bai-bai （ - in the middle for any foreign words)
祝 = zhu = chúc
努力 = nu li = nỗ lực

now is winter so:
冬 = dong = đông
冷 = leng = lạnh

聖誕快樂 = Giáng Sinh Vui Vẻ = No-en Vui Vẻ
新年快樂 = Năm Mới Vui Vẻ

Edited by SkllZ, 26 December 2010 - 09:06 AM.

[qrasy]

I never read any Vietnamese phrase books before but I heard from people it's useless. They try to read what inside the book and local people can't understand.

Well... Vietnamese is a tonal language. When you already mess up the tonemes, you can't mess up much of the vowels and consonants (otherwise it would be unintelligible).

Yea. Quoc Ngu is different with pin yin. I know how hard it is (Haha, remind me of the time i learned pin yin. I messed the two up real good).

Yeah, so you should start fresh, without any assumption of how things should be read.
For example, the readings of "T" are quite different in Pinyin and Quoc Ngu.

And I see that the first poster know about Malaysian, but then the same thing applies.. you can't assume that the C in Quoc Ngu is the same C in Malay.

What do you mean without the internet??

Some of the internet sites provides Vietnamese input. Of course, the interface could be downloaded but it means not typing directly into things like notepad.

I'm using Unikey.

I think WinVNKey has the same functionality. And I know that there are many other similar applications on the web.

Go to Mở rộng and unstick Vietnamese interface, it will switch to English language.

What is Mở rộng?

Haha. Well, if you're interested in it then you should learn how to speak it. There's no right or wrong here. When I study Cantonese, I don't ask myself if it's useful. I study because I enjoy it.

聖誕快樂 = Giáng Sinh Vui Vẻ = No-en Vui Vẻ

This No-en is from "No-el" (Noël).

新年快樂 = Năm Mới Vui Vẻ

Chúc Mừng Năm Mới.
For Tết Nguyên Đán: Cung chúc tân xuân 恭祝新春

[SkllZ]

What is Mở rộng?

It's in the software's menu. The default interface is in Vietnamese and instead of "Option" (lựa chọn/ chọn lựa). It uses Mở rộng (Expand)

This No-en is from "No-el" (Noël).

I remember it should be Nô-en. You can write no-el or no-en and people can understand both.

For example, the readings of "T" are quite different in Pinyin and Quoc Ngu.

Yea.. they're different. In pin yin, it's T, but in Quoc Ngu it's Th. T in Vietnam is pronouns without the H sound, it sounds closed to D in pin yin.

Actually I never read Malay before but I used to live in Singapore and had couple of Indonesian friends. I could read their scripts with Vietnamese alphabet's pronunciation without any problems and I got 80-90% correct. I heard Malay and Indo use the same language.
I think C is pronounced the same.

Edited by SkllZ, 26 December 2010 - 11:50 PM.

[qrasy]

Actually I never read Malay before but I used to live in Singapore and had couple of Indonesian friends. I could read their scripts with Vietnamese alphabet's pronunciation without any problems and I got 80-90% correct.

That is apparently because Malay has less vowels than standard Vietnamese and both are based on Latin script not English script. (and there's also little need to add extra consonants from Latin, ng and ny being familiar sounds to Vietnamese and endings like -s can be learned with English).
A Malaysian reading Vietnamese would have much more trouble, e.g. not being able to tell ô and o apart.
There's also no such vowels as "ư" or "ă" in Malay.

For Indonesian vowels, apart from aiueo there's only the neutral vowel (which sounds like Vietnamese ơ or â, but usually written e in Indonesian).

I heard Malay and Indo use the same language.

They indeed can be described to be variants of the same language.
It's like different dialects, and most often intelligible (not always, and pretty much unintelligible when the Indonesians used a lot of their non-formal words).

I think C is pronounced the same.

Indonesian C is closer to Vietnamese Ch.
Vietnamese C is just like Indonesian K.

Edited by qrasy, 27 December 2010 - 06:51 AM.

[SkllZ]

This song is pretty good. Hope it could help you with the Vietnamese alphabet

Khoc - Dong Nhi

Edited by SkllZ, 12 January 2011 - 03:41 AM.

[SkllZ]

格𢵬𡨸喃



1. 只用仍𡨸𥪝牓碼 unicode。（Chỉ dùng những chữ trong bảng mã unicode）



只用統一碼之内的。



Use only characters within unicode.



2. 優先𡨸正體欣𡨸簡體。（Ưu tiên chữ chính thể hơn chữ giản thể）



首選繁體，不用簡體。



Prefer traditional characters over simplified.

• 𡳰𡳵𡳶𦼨 cũ —— 𡳰 cũ

• 滝瀧 sông —— 瀧 sông

• 鍆钔 môn —— 鍆 môn

• 𠁵𠁹 giữa —— 𠁹 giữa

• 𠚢𦋦 ra —— 𠚢 ra

3. 優先𡨸共㭲欣𡨸...𧹋摱。（Ưu tiên chữ cùng gốc hơn chữ vay mượn）



首選同源的。不用假借字代替同源字。



Prefer cognicates over loan characters.

• 過戈 qua —— 過 qua

• 家茹 nhà —— 家 nhà

4. 空用𡨸曰𨄠。（Không dùng chữ viết tắt）



不用訛化字。



Avoid corrupted Characters.

• 𡨸𡦂 chữ —— 𡨸 chữ （𡦂是𡨸的訛化，聲符本來是宁（貯）trữ）

• 𡨹㑏𢬇𧵤 —— 𡨹 giữ （㑏、𢬇和𧵤是佇、拧和貯的訛化，聲符本來是宁（貯）trữ）

• 𠇍众𢭲 —— 𢭲 với （𠇍是众的訛化，本字是貝）

5. 𢵬仍𡨸𣎏格讀𠃣一。空用各𡨸原本空𠓑抵𠊝朱各𡨸𣎏原本𠓑𠒥 現𠉞。（Chọn những chữ có cách đọc ít nhất. Không dùng các chữ nguyên bản không rõ để thay cho các chữ có nguyên bản rõ ràng hiện nay.）



選擇最少讀音的。不用多音多義的本字代替音義明確的後起字。



Choose the character with the fewest readings. Don't use the ambiguous original phonetic loan character to replace the clear present character.

• 年 nên năm niên —— 𢧚 nên 𢆥 năm 年 niên

• 命 mệnh mạng mình mạnh mịnh —— 命 mệnh 𦁸 mạng 𨉟 mình 孟 mạnh 命 mịnh

• 本 bản bộn bủn vỏn vốn bốn bổn —— 本 bản 𡖱 bộn 𡭦 bủn 㖹 vỏn 𢏿 vốn 𦊚 bốn 畚 bổn

• 鬧 náo náu nháo nao nào —— 𠴼 náo 搙 náu 𠿷 nháo 鬧 nao nào

• 戈 qua quơ quờ —— 戈 qua 㧓 quơ 𢵵 quờ

• 信 tín tin —— 信 tín 𠒷 tin

注意： 𡀮𡨸𣎏格讀𠃣一空沛𥪝牓碼 Unicode 時用𡨸㭲𧵑伮。

chú ý: nếu chữ có cách đọc ít nhất không phải trong bảng mã Unicode thì dùng chữ gốc của nó.



註： 如果最少讀音的不在統一碼之内就用它的本字來代替。

Note: If the character with the fewest readings is not within unicode, then use its original character.

• 免某貝買（񣑛） mấy —— 買 mấy （𣛠 máy， 買 mấy ～ 機 cơ， 幾 ki）

• 吟含呤唅唫噤（񣊈） ngậm —— 吟 ngậm

• 夭要（񢿻） yếu —— 要 yếu （也就是要字的標準漢越音）

• 罕釁漢（񣊈） hắn —— 漢 hắn （罕 hãn， 漢 hán）

6. 優先𡨸𣎏分指音𧵆一。𡄰一羅𡨸梏咍分指音𧵑伮。（Ưu tiên chữ có phần chỉ âm gần nhất. Tốt nhất là chữ gốc hay phần chỉ âm của nó.）



首選聲符最接近字音的。最好是以本字或至少本字的聲符做聲符。



Prefer characters with the closest phonetic part. At best with the original loan character or at least its phonetic.

• 𠬃𠬕𠬖（補） bỏ —— 𠬕𠬖 bỏ （按照均勻分配規則要選擇"𠬖"）

• 𦤾𦥃（旦典） đến —— 𦤾 đến （這個字詞有兩個本字）

• 𠓇𤏬（創） sáng —— 𤏬 sáng

• 𧵑𧶮（古） của —— 𧵑 của

7. 優先𡨸𣎏分指意𧵆一。𡄰一羅𠬠𡨸同義。（Ưu tiên chữ có phần chỉ ý gần nhất. Tốt nhất là một chữ đồng nghĩa.）



首選義符最接近字義的。



Prefer characters with the closest semantic part. At best a synonym.

• 𢝙𣡝 vui —— 𣡝 vui

• 𠑬𦣗（胞膮饒） nhau —— 𦣗 nhau （意思和詞源是"胞"，"胞"也同時是"𦣗"的本字）

• 𠓀𠠩𨎟𨎠 trước —— 𠓀 trước

• 𠎩𠖤𢒎𨅥𨭍𩈂𩙻（悲蜚飛） —— 𩙻 bay

8. 優先分指音𣄒邊沛或邊𠁑。（Ưu tiên phần chỉ âm ở bên phải hoặc bên dưới.）



首選左義右聲或上義下聲的。



Prefer right phonetic over left, prefer down phonetic over up.

• 𠊚𠊛 người —— 𠊚 người

• 𠢞𠢟 giúp —— 𠢟 giúp

• 𣩁𣩂 chết —— 𣩁 chết

• 𣈜𣈗 ngày —— 𣈜 ngày

• 𡤓𡤔 mới —— 𡤓 mới

• 𪛅𪛇 rùa —— 𪛇 rùa

• 𠬕𠬖 bỏ —— 𠬖 bỏ

• 𠁟𠔮𡗄 gồm —— 𠁟 gồm

註： 修聲符應該在左邊或上邊。

（括號裏面的是作聲兼義符的本字）

• 𠒷（信） tin ： 從信（tín），先（-i-）修聲。

• 𪚚（中） trong ： 從中（trung），龍（-o-）修聲。

• 𢆥（年） năm ： 從年（niên），南（-m）修聲。

• 𡨸（字） chữ ： 從字（tự），宁（-ữ）修聲。

• 𡪇（修） chữa ： 從修（tu），宁（-ữ）修聲。

不符合：

• 𡦶（孤） côi ： 從孤（cô），魁（-ôi）修聲。

9. 優先𡨸𣎏各部調處理。（Ưu tiên chữ có các bộ đều xử lý.）



部首要均勻的分配。



Prefer characters with evenly disposed parts.

• 𥢆（禾厶目）𥢅（禾卜目八） —— 𥢆 riêng

• 𠬕（去衣甫）𠬖（去衣） bỏ —— 𠬖 bỏ

• 𢜏（日心）𢜠（心日月） mừng —— 𢜏 mừng

Credit to: Sky Darmos .
東亞文化圈/东圈 · 동아시아 문화권 · Khu vực văn hóa Đông Á · 東アジア文化圏

Edited by SkllZ, 13 February 2011 - 09:07 PM.