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Jasmine Revolution?


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#1 William O'Chee

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 08:44 PM

The following is a report from the respected intelligence service, Strategic Forecasting:

China: Beijing Calls For Jasmine Revolution Crackdown
February 19, 2011
Chinese authorities detained activists in an attempt to crackdown on a “Jasmine Revolution” called for by unknown organizers in 13 cities on Feb. 20, MSNBC reported Feb. 19. Online searches for the word “jasmine” were blocked, witnesses reported, adding that activists were detained and harassed following the online call to gather and shout, “We want food, we want work, we want housing, we want fairness.” Police pulled Beijing lawyer Jiang Tianyong into a car and drove away, the lawyer’s wife stated.


Has this search term really been blocked? Can anyone tell us what is going on?

#2 JohnD

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:41 AM

Yahoo ran a story on it: http://news.yahoo.co...mine_revolution
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#3 tigger

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:47 AM

The following is a report from the respected intelligence service, Strategic Forecasting:

China: Beijing Calls For Jasmine Revolution Crackdown
February 19, 2011
Chinese authorities detained activists in an attempt to crackdown on a “Jasmine Revolution” called for by unknown organizers in 13 cities on Feb. 20, MSNBC reported Feb. 19. Online searches for the word “jasmine” were blocked, witnesses reported, adding that activists were detained and harassed following the online call to gather and shout, “We want food, we want work, we want housing, we want fairness.” Police pulled Beijing lawyer Jiang Tianyong into a car and drove away, the lawyer’s wife stated.


Has this search term really been blocked? Can anyone tell us what is going on?


http://www.washingto...1022000323.html

BEIJING -- Jittery Chinese authorities staged a show of force Sunday to squelch a mysterious online call for a "Jasmine Revolution" apparently modeled after pro-democracy demonstrations sweeping the Middle East.

Authorities detained activists, increased the number of police on the streets and censored online calls to stage protests in Beijing, Shanghai and 11 other major cities. Citizens were urged to shout "We want food, we want work, we want housing, we want fairness" - a slogan that highlights common complaints among ordinary Chinese.

Many activists said they didn't know who was behind the campaign and weren't sure what to make of the call to protest, which was first posted on the U.S.-based Chinese-language advocacy website Boxun.com.

China's authoritarian government has appeared unnerved by recent protests in Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain, Yemen, Algeria and Libya. It has limited media reports about them, stressing the instability caused by protests in Egypt, and restricted Internet searches to keep people uninformed.

The call to protest in China did not seem to garner much traction among citizens. In Beijing, 25-year-old Liu Xiaobai was stopped by police after he placed a white jasmine flower on a planter in front of a McDonald's restaurant that was the planned protest site and took some photos with his cell phone.

"I'm quite scared because they took away my phone. I just put down some white flowers, what's wrong with that?" Liu said. "I'm just a normal citizen and I just want peace."

Security agents tried to take Liu away, but he was swarmed by journalists and eventually was seen walking away with a friend.

Two other people were taken away by police, including a shabbily dressed old man who was cursing and shouting, though it wasn't clear if he was there because of the online call to protest.

Any potential protesters were far outnumbered by hundreds of rubberneckers at the busy Wangfujing pedestrian mall, who wondered if there was a celebrity in the area because of the heavy police presence and dozens of foreign journalists and news cameras.

In Shanghai, three people were taken away by police after scuffling in front of a Starbucks coffee shop in what appeared to be an attempt to attract attention. They were not holding placards and their intentions were unclear.

There were no reports of protests in other cities where people were urged to gather, such as Guangzhou, Tianjin, Wuhan and Chengdu.

Ahead of the planned protests, more than 100 activists in cities across China were taken away by police, confined to their homes or were missing, the Hong Kong-based group Information Center for Human Rights and Democracy said. Families and friends reported the detention or harassment of several dissidents, and some activists said they were warned not to participate.

On Sunday, searches for "jasmine" were blocked on China's largest Twitter-like microblog, and status updates with the word on popular Chinese social networking site Renren.com were met with an error message and a warning to refrain from postings with "political, sensitive ... or other inappropriate content."

Mass text messaging service was unavailable in Beijing due to "technical issues," according to a customer service operator for leading provider China Mobile. In the past, Chinese authorities have suspended text messaging in politically tense areas to prevent organizing.

Boxun.com said its website was attacked by hackers Saturday after it posted the call to protest. A temporary site, on which users were reporting heavy police presence in several cities, was up and running Sunday. The site said in a statement it had no way of verifying the origins of the campaign.

The call for a Jasmine Revolution came as President Hu Jintao gave a speech to top leaders Saturday, asking them to "solve prominent problems which might harm the harmony and stability of the society." Hu told the senior politicians and officials to provide better social services to people and improve management of information on the Internet "to guide public opinion," the official Xinhua News Agency reported.



#4 ahxiang

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 10:47 PM

The following is a report from the respected intelligence service, Strategic Forecasting:

China: Beijing Calls For Jasmine Revolution Crackdown
February 19, 2011
Chinese authorities detained activists in an attempt to crackdown on a “Jasmine Revolution” called for by unknown organizers in 13 cities on Feb. 20, MSNBC reported Feb. 19. Online searches for the word “jasmine” were blocked, witnesses reported, adding that activists were detained and harassed following the online call to gather and shout, “We want food, we want work, we want housing, we want fairness.” Police pulled Beijing lawyer Jiang Tianyong into a car and drove away, the lawyer’s wife stated.


Has this search term really been blocked? Can anyone tell us what is going on?



I thought this thread has the restriction not to talk about the "current" affairs.

About the “Jasmine Revolution”. It was more about someone making a call in a house of silence, i.e., what Lu Xun said a window-less house of 'Chinese' people sleeping in darkness. Unlike the ROC days, today's China does not allow any murmur, not to mention shouting. And, there is no extraterritorial protection afforded to the CCP agents, as were the international settlements in Shanghai, Hankow, Tientsin and Qingdao etc. Agitators, however, could imitate the so-called CCP "feixing [in flight] jihui [assembly]", namely, moving in a group to a street intersection, throwing some leaflets, and then disappearing into the crowds. Every "May 1st" of the year, it was called the "Red May" and the spectacles of the "assemblies in flight". There is a lot of tricks people could learn from the CCP. Alternatively, people could start from their own place of concentration, like campus. However, the dots need to connect. And a trigger is needed.

So far, I read a good writeup by Wei Jingsheng. What he said was a citation of the ancient saying: "坑灰未冷山东乱,刘项原来不读书。" That is, Liu Bang and Xiang Yu, who overthrew the Qin Dynasty, were not intellectuals but martial artist and rascal, respectively. Basically this was what I said before, namely, the true elites of China were destroyed and there was not another generation regenerated, and that this time, the non-intellectual commoners, as is the case with the Middle East, would be the propellers. (See http://www.kanzhongguo.com/node/392279 ) The dozens of teenager suicide incidents at the I-phone manufacturing facilities and the Honda factories could be such triggers. The commoners, last year, already exhibited their tactics and bargaining power. What's needed is someone who could organize a COFFIN procession for the next victim, and carried this COFFIN through the gate of the I-phone manufacturing facility to the streets of Shenzhen. The power lies in the billion coolies, not the 'petty' intellectuals and 'elites' who were already bought over by the government.

My current concern was more about who are to take over the country and the leadership, not if and when the Jasmine Revolution will occur in China. Looking around the media, I saw ominous signs that some of the opportunists could play some game. I am not very appreciative of Liu Shaobo, neither Li Lu. (See some comment here at http://bbs.wenxuecit...nt/356966.html; Also see Wu Renhua's comment at http://2newcenturyne...-post_381.html. It seems to me me the two guys are preferred candidates for the Wall Street and the international institutions. (Many years ago, in the article on the June 4th, 1989 massacre, I wrote "Liu Xiaobo, who just returned to China, must be kicking himself for missing the actions in previous 45 days." He claimed that China needs to be colonized [by the West] for some hundreds of years first before it would have real progress in ares like democracy.) Obama and the White House, with their screening capabilities limited, have their eyes focused on the names here: http://www.kanzhongguo.com/node/387325 and I don't know who is to emerge to be the next leader. This is what I am worried about now.

Edited by ahxiang, 21 February 2011 - 11:06 PM.

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#5 General_Zhaoyun

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 03:42 AM

Thread moved to Dragon Gate Inn..

Apparently, inspired by what's happening over in the Middle East, the "Jasmine revolution" has actually spreaded to China, probably launched by Chinese activists abroad. But apparently, as far as I know, CCP put a sharp alert in controlling the internet, and all search engines in China cannot find anything about Jasmine revolution. Even youtube, facebook are all banned in China.

There appears many police around the gatherings and were quickly dismantled. It probably doesn't work in China.

There are news reports about Jasmine revolution in middle east in Baidu. But apparently, any social threads or microblogs intended to organize gatherings are deleted or banned immediately.
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#6 Shaolin

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:49 AM

Even youtube, facebook are all banned in China.


Sidetracking abit...

Youtube,facebook and other banned websites can be accessed in China by using smart phones roaming on China's mobile operators instead of internet operators, but then of course it will cost a lot more. I used my Iphone in some parts of China recently and tested it out and it worked well.
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#7 Yizheng

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 10:32 AM

My current concern was more about who are to take over the country and the leadership, not if and when the Jasmine Revolution will occur in China. Looking around the media, I saw ominous signs that some of the opportunists could play some game. I am not very appreciative of Liu Shaobo, neither Li Lu. (See some comment here at http://bbs.wenxuecit...nt/356966.html; Also see Wu Renhua's comment at http://2newcenturyne...-post_381.html. It seems to me me the two guys are preferred candidates for the Wall Street and the international institutions. (Many years ago, in the article on the June 4th, 1989 massacre, I wrote "Liu Xiaobo, who just returned to China, must be kicking himself for missing the actions in previous 45 days." He claimed that China needs to be colonized [by the West] for some hundreds of years first before it would have real progress in ares like democracy.) Obama and the White House, with their screening capabilities limited, have their eyes focused on the names here: http://www.kanzhongguo.com/node/387325 and I don't know who is to emerge to be the next leader. This is what I am worried about now.

This is always a very legitimate worry - and always there is a big risk that opportunists could use any kind of revolution to their advantage.
Personally, I would deeply desire to see a democratic China, with its people freely choosing their own way forward. I also do not like these kinds of people who think that democracy can come only from the West, and that the West should therefore colonise the country (or 'guide' the way). That is not to say that the West does not have some fine things to offer - it certainly does - but democracy must grow in people's own hearts and minds and cannot be transplanted, imposed, or nurtured even by a well-meaning but foreign hand.
At the same time, nor am I for isolation. It is a not always easy balance to find.
I fear however, that the chance for more peaceful change was lost in 1989, and a future change would unlikely be free of violence, and would probably be at greater risk of instability and extremes than in 1989.
Here in Russia, internet is not controlled (yet), and there is media coverage (though neutral to negative in tone) of the events in the Middle East and North Africa. The govt here is just counting on people's passiveness not to put them on the list of endangered leaders. They always play on people's fear of instability and chaos, showing on TV what a terrible thing these revolutions are, because it creates chaos. The govt in both Russia and China uses this deep old fear of instability a lot to suppress people's appetite for revolution. In Russia, people are always worried too that even though they know the people in power have robbed the country and are corrupt, if a new lot comes to power, they will just start robbing the country all over again, redividing the assets all over again, and perhaps be even more greedy. It comes down to the idea of 'better the devil you know...'

#8 ahxiang

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 12:57 AM

This is always a very legitimate worry - and always there is a big risk that opportunists could use any kind of revolution to their advantage.
Personally, I would deeply desire to see a democratic China, with its people freely choosing their own way forward. I also do not like these kinds of people who think that democracy can come only from the West, and that the West should therefore colonise the country (or 'guide' the way). That is not to say that the West does not have some fine things to offer - it certainly does - but democracy must grow in people's own hearts and minds and cannot be transplanted, imposed, or nurtured even by a well-meaning but foreign hand.
At the same time, nor am I for isolation. It is a not always easy balance to find.
I fear however, that the chance for more peaceful change was lost in 1989, and a future change would unlikely be free of violence, and would probably be at greater risk of instability and extremes than in 1989.
Here in Russia, internet is not controlled (yet), and there is media coverage (though neutral to negative in tone) of the events in the Middle East and North Africa. The govt here is just counting on people's passiveness not to put them on the list of endangered leaders. They always play on people's fear of instability and chaos, showing on TV what a terrible thing these revolutions are, because it creates chaos. The govt in both Russia and China uses this deep old fear of instability a lot to suppress people's appetite for revolution. In Russia, people are always worried too that even though they know the people in power have robbed the country and are corrupt, if a new lot comes to power, they will just start robbing the country all over again, redividing the assets all over again, and perhaps be even more greedy. It comes down to the idea of 'better the devil you know...'



Yizheng, I could see you have compassion for the Chinese people, as well as a strong inclination and love for the Chinese history.

The China matter perhaps hinges on the coming collapse of its huge real estate bubble. The ultimate outcome from any future Chinese uproar over the financial disaster ensuing from the coming bubble bursting could be dependent upon the position and stand-grounds of the U.S. government. (The U.S. has a full house of the sons and daughters of the CCP leadership to use as 'hostage' as well as a full cache of their deposits. - This is one important bargaining chip for the U.S. government to exert influence over the CCP should there be contemplated another military crackdown in the future.)

Inside of the U.S., I saw two powerful forces pulling the China string. One force from the establishments in the U.S. and on the Wall Street (i.e., the Goldman Sachs gang and the deficit spending gang) wants the CCP [and China] to continue the financing for the U.S. treasuries and debts in return for commission rebates, not to mention the other benefit of cheap labor that China provides, while another force from the establishments in the U.S. and on the Wall Street wants to see China disintegrating into chaos and plans to reap profits such as shorting the Chinese market. (Though, have to acknowledge that there are bona fide U.S. congressmen and congresswomen who want to see a democratic and free China, and I myself often think of the ancient poem about the commoners' exclamation to die together with despotic ruler.) The gang which wants to elongate the life expectancy of the CCP and help extend the CCP's tenuous hold over China, would be like the guy called Robert Zoellick who wrote a typical propaganda entitled "Whither China: From Membership To Responsibility" See http://www.ncuscr.or...er_spring_0.pdf for details as to how they justify the CCP to be a responsible stakeholder.

I was disappointed over the role the U.S. played in 1989, and especially so after reading James Liley's memoirs. I hope Obama is different. So far, I saw little from Obama, and he is surrounded by the "China hands" who take the CCP leadership as friends, unfortunately. (I found corroboration of the George Bush gang's indifference and complicity in the 1989 massacre in an article written by Ruan Ying, former president of the CCP party academy.)

Excerpts (link to the full article at http://www.kanzhongguo.com/node/392357 )

第四,自由国家特别是美国政府,在自由与共产党奴役制度的历史性角斗中,站到了历史的错误一边。

“六四”屠杀通过美国CNN电视实况报导,震惊了世界。美国政治领袖当时采取两面手法:一面向公众表示谴责屠夫、制裁暴政;一面暗通款曲,向屠夫示好,寻求与其“合作”,助其“稳定”,以维持自由大国与共产奴役制度大国之间的“力量均衡”(balanceofpower)。

1989年6月29日,美国众议院以418票对0票通过《制裁中国修正案》,第二天(6月30日)布什总统就遣特使史考克罗夫特(BrentScowcroft)和伊戈尔伯格(LawrenceEagleburger)秘密访问北京,向邓小平示好。他们遭到邓小平一顿痛斥,无功而返。邓小平说:

“中国没有触犯美国,任何一个小问题都没有触犯。问题出在美国。美国在很大范围内直接触犯了中国的利益和尊严。我明确告诉阁下,中国的内政绝不允许任何人加以干涉,不管后果如何,中国都不会让步。中国内政要由中国来管,什么灾难到来,中国都可以承受,绝不会让步。”

邓小平敢于如此蛮横对待老布什的特使,因为他看透了美国软弱可欺。早在密使派出一周之前(6月23日),邓小平收到老布什密信。信中说:

“对于阁下对贵国人民的贡献及引导贵国进步,本人极为敬重,有鉴于此,敝人提笔写这封信,请求阁下协助维系这层贵我双方都认为至为重要的关系。敝人已经竭尽所能,不干预中国内政,敝人尊重贵我两国社会、制度之歧异。敝人只是要向阁下保证,我们希望这个难题能获得解决,既能令阁下满意,又不违我们对基本原则的主张。朋友之间有歧见必须设法消弭。”

这封信让邓小平一眼看穿,美国政府的所谓制裁,不过是应付国会和公众舆论的姿态。因而采取寸步不让的强硬态度,逼老布什全线退却。同时在北京、上海等地继续扩大搜捕和公开处决参加民主运动的中国青年。

两名密使在北京碰壁回来,布什在7月9日的日记中写道:“我真的很希望中国采取行动解决目前关系紧绷的问题,可惜未能如愿。”他再次借口通报七国高峰会写信给邓小平,说:“美国和日本曾把一些非常令人激怒的措词从指责中国的公报中删去”等等。

邓小平回信继续指责美国“深深地卷入了中国的内政,对中国进行制裁,触犯了中国的利益和尊严,由此引起中美关系的困难,责任完全在美国方面,应由美国来改变。”

布什见邓小平态度强硬,于10月、11月连续请尼克松和季辛吉访问北京充当说客。邓小平面对这两位中国的“老朋友”,嘴里还是说硬话,态度上开始缓和下来。他一面对尼克松说:“北京的动乱和反革命暴乱,首先是国际上反共反社会主义思潮煽动起来的。美国在这个问题上卷入太深,美国之音太不象话,一批撒谎的人在干事。如果美国领导人根据美国之音制定国策,要吃亏的。”一面又说:“你是中美关系非常严峻的时刻到中国访问的,我们同美国也应该结束这几个月的过去,开辟未来。请你告诉布什总统,结束过去,美国可以采取一些主动行动。美国利用中国市场还有很多事情能够做,我们欢迎美国商人继续进行对华商业活动,这恐怕也是结束过去的一个重要内容。”

尼克松从邓小平那里回来,在美国《时代》杂志发表的文章〈中美关系的危机〉中说:
“东亚安全问题上,日本已经是一个经济上的超级大国,而且有能力成为一个军事和政治超级大国。与此同时,苏联在这一地区仍具有相当影响力。在此种情况下,如果有一个强大的、稳定的、与美国保持友好关系的国家,对于美国平衡亚洲力量,特别是平衡日本和苏联在远东的力量,就是必不可少的。美国维护同中国的合作符合美国的利益,美国可利用中国的力量来平衡其它的力量,以在太平洋地区取得有利于美国的大国均衡。”

这就是尼克松、基辛格主张的联中制日、联中制俄大战略。老布什看来接受了他的主张。邓小平在11月6日接到老布什来信,信中表示:“当初尼克松访华的地缘政治原因依然存在,今天,美中两国在许多重要领域有着相似的利益。”来信建议,在老布什同戈尔巴乔夫会晤后,美国将帕特使访华,向邓小平通报会晤情况,探讨如何使美中关系正常化。

12月9日,老布什的特使史考克罗夫一行再度访问北京。这一回是公开的。美国终于接受了邓小平的“一揽子方案”,包括:“美国取消制裁”,“落实几项较大的中美经济合作项目”;邓小平的报答是:“同意方励之夫妇离开美国驻华使馆到美国或某第三国去。”

老布什如此急切地帮邓小平从“六四”屠杀的内外困境中走出,受到了美国舆论的强烈批评。

美国参议院民主党领袖米契尔(GeorgeMitchell)在国会抨击这是“美国总统以最不恰当、最令人尴尬的方式向中共政府屈服,是对高压的共产中国政权表里不一的磕头外交。”

《华盛顿邮报》批评老布什的决定是“对一个实行镇压和沾满鲜血的政府做出的安抚性让步。”

Edited by ahxiang, 23 February 2011 - 01:04 AM.

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#9 baybal

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:25 AM

>Youtube,facebook and other banned websites can be accessed in China by using smart phones roaming on China's mobile operators instead of internet operators, but then of course it will cost a lot more. I used my Iphone in some parts of China
> recently and tested it out and it worked well.

Quite a good idea though. Why not to set up a mock up cell operator and set up SIM card distribution on site? Roaming charges by PRC's phone networks shouldn't be that great for text data, as they are counted on per byte basis.

> Even youtube, facebook are all banned in China.

Simply let Al Jazeera to lease a band on any sattelite DVB broadcaster. There are quite a lot dish installations in residential areas. It would be enough for 1 person in 200 for new to turn viral. And jamming on sattelite frequencies are unefficient and highly local. I would tell that it was more sattelite broadcasters than internet and cell phones that mobilised the masses in the MEast.

In P.S.

> I would deeply desire to see a democratic China, with its people freely choosing their own way forward.

How they would freely choose if they don't know what is to choose freely? It's would be like to be wishing for USSR to fall appart by itself, while in fact the only power that made it possible for USSR to collapse was an extremely elaborate coup. PRC needs a push to go towards freedom.

> democracy must grow in people's own hearts and minds and cannot be transplanted, imposed, or nurtured even by a well-meaning but foreign hand.

But it can be washed out by regime's desinformation and F.U.D.

>The ultimate outcome from any future Chinese uproar over the financial disaster ensuing from the coming bubble bursting could be dependent upon the position and stand-grounds of the U.S. government.

Yes, in fact it would be

>One force from the establishments in the U.S. and on the Wall Street (i.e., the Goldman Sachs gang and the deficit spending gang) wants the CCP [and China] to continue the financing for the U.S. treasuries and debts in return for commission
>rebates, not to mention the other benefit of cheap labor that China provides, while another force from the establishments in the U.S. and on the Wall Street wants to see China disintegrating into chaos and plans to reap profits such as shorting the
>Chinese market.

First is variant is far more likely given the fact that half of the Wall Street is, technically speaking, owned by communists and the second by Arab souvereign funds + Japanese banks.

Edited by baybal, 23 February 2011 - 04:27 AM.


#10 baybal

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:35 AM

Can anybody report on current events development?

#11 William O'Chee

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Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:43 AM

Inside of the U.S., I saw two powerful forces pulling the China string. One force from the establishments in the U.S. and on the Wall Street (i.e., the Goldman Sachs gang and the deficit spending gang) wants the CCP [and China] to continue the financing for the U.S. treasuries and debts in return for commission rebates, not to mention the other benefit of cheap labor that China provides, while another force from the establishments in the U.S. and on the Wall Street wants to see China disintegrating into chaos and plans to reap profits such as shorting the Chinese market. (Though, have to acknowledge that there are bona fide U.S. congressmen and congresswomen who want to see a democratic and free China, and I myself often think of the ancient poem about the commoners' exclamation to die together with despotic ruler.) The gang which wants to elongate the life expectancy of the CCP and help extend the CCP's tenuous hold over China, would be like the guy called Robert Zoellick who wrote a typical propaganda entitled "Whither China: From Membership To Responsibility" See http://www.ncuscr.or...er_spring_0.pdf for details as to how they justify the CCP to be a responsible stakeholder.

I was disappointed over the role the U.S. played in 1989, and especially so after reading James Liley's memoirs. I hope Obama is different. So far, I saw little from Obama, and he is surrounded by the "China hands" who take the CCP leadership as friends, unfortunately. (I found corroboration of the George Bush gang's indifference and complicity in the 1989 massacre in an article written by Ruan Ying, former president of the CCP party academy.)

What did James have to say for himself and the US in relation to 1989? I know him as I was on a delegation with him once, but I have not read his book.

#12 ahxiang

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 12:04 PM

What did James have to say for himself and the US in relation to 1989? I know him as I was on a delegation with him once, but I have not read his book.


William, James is a good man, and I was referring to the complicity of the George Bush gang for the complicity. The gang includes Bush, Nixon, Kissinger, and et al. And the article I was quoting, that was written by the CCP party academy [former] boss, Ruan Ming, had detailed insight knowledge about the communications, letters, and talkings by Bush, Nixon, Kissinger, and et al.

It was really China's misfortune that in the 1940s the Democrats-controlled White House, permeated with the Soviet spies and the British hands, had doomed China once; and then the Republicans-controlled White House appeased the CCP in whatever ways, with its motives and motivation I would call ULTERIOR and won't go into here, and my only explanation for this kind of American behavior to the CCP would be to treat it as a comparable to what George Kennen and his 1947 X Article did in regards to the Soviets.

James, I like to emphasize, is a real friend of China and the Chinese people, and their family had a history of affection for the Asian people. Having examined the whole American history with China, I could count no more than ten to be China's true friends, and they are for easy reference: Paul Reinsch, Patrick Hurley, Arthur Young, Albert Wedemeyere, et al.

At
http://www.chinahist...ost__p__5000290
I had mentioned what James did:

In 1989, the U.S. president did nothing to stop the CCP from committing the massacre in Peking. James Liley, the American ambassador to China, disclosed that he had first reported to Washington DC on May 21st, 1989, that China's communist leaders would likely crack down on the demonstrations. Liley, who had authorized his spies to lease a hotel room at a hotel near the T.A.M. Square, intended the U.S. Government to step in to exert some pressure on the Chinese communist leadership so that no blood would be shed. However, after his return to D.C., Liley would find out that President George Bush had claimed that he never received the ambassador's report. Embassy officials, Larry Wortzel & Bill McGiven, had firsthand information on the death toll of the June 4th Massacre which the US government deliberately skipped the same as what it did to the John Birch Murder of 1945.

Edited by ahxiang, 24 February 2011 - 12:06 PM.

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#13 tigger

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 01:49 PM

William, James is a good man, and I was referring to the complicity of the George Bush gang for the complicity. The gang includes Bush, Nixon, Kissinger, and et al. And the article I was quoting, that was written by the CCP party academy [former] boss, Ruan Ming, had detailed insight knowledge about the communications, letters, and talkings by Bush, Nixon, Kissinger, and et al.

It was really China's misfortune that in the 1940s the Democrats-controlled White House, permeated with the Soviet spies and the British hands, had doomed China once; and then the Republicans-controlled White House appeased the CCP in whatever ways, with its motives and motivation I would call ULTERIOR and won't go into here, and my only explanation for this kind of American behavior to the CCP would be to treat it as a comparable to what George Kennen and his 1947 X Article did in regards to the Soviets.

James, I like to emphasize, is a real friend of China and the Chinese people, and their family had a history of affection for the Asian people. Having examined the whole American history with China, I could count no more than ten to be China's true friends, and they are for easy reference: Paul Reinsch, Patrick Hurley, Arthur Young, Albert Wedemeyere, et al.

At
http://www.chinahist...ost__p__5000290
I had mentioned what James did:

In 1989, the U.S. president did nothing to stop the CCP from committing the massacre in Peking. James Liley, the American ambassador to China, disclosed that he had first reported to Washington DC on May 21st, 1989, that China's communist leaders would likely crack down on the demonstrations. Liley, who had authorized his spies to lease a hotel room at a hotel near the T.A.M. Square, intended the U.S. Government to step in to exert some pressure on the Chinese communist leadership so that no blood would be shed. However, after his return to D.C., Liley would find out that President George Bush had claimed that he never received the ambassador's report. Embassy officials, Larry Wortzel & Bill McGiven, had firsthand information on the death toll of the June 4th Massacre which the US government deliberately skipped the same as what it did to the John Birch Murder of 1945.


There's only so much US support can do. Look at Libya right now. Its a blood bath. There's so much anti American sentiment in the world that even the slightest support would make it seem like they're butting in again on domestic affairs of a foreign country. If something happened, I'm sure Obama would at least make a speech denouncing any violence.

anyone hear about another protest forming on sunday? i have no basis.. just something i read in another board.

#14 Gan

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 03:30 PM

There's only so much US support can do. Look at Libya right now. Its a blood bath. There's so much anti American sentiment in the world that even the slightest support would make it seem like they're butting in again on domestic affairs of a foreign country. If something happened, I'm sure Obama would at least make a speech denouncing any violence.

anyone hear about another protest forming on sunday? i have no basis.. just something i read in another board.


The American image abroad might be helped if the military actually pulls out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Speaking from a layman's point of view, it's really hard to blame people overseas if they see the US as someone butting in, even though it may be only a small gesture.

#15 grassmudhorse

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 07:35 PM

I noticed that there are quite a number of mainland Chinese users on the website. I think this thread might cause them to have problem accessing CHF in the future. Hopefully the CHF would not be blocked?




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