8 replies to this topic

[chinesehistoryboy]

Read the user jinlong's second reply on the thread. His views on the han dynasty are questionable. He's a manchu, so his views are not surprising.

''han Dynasty was ruled by northerners and a little blood from the south''. who were the northerners. Surely, i hope its not another altaic nationalist claim.

''han people did'nt start migrating to the north until the 3 kingdoms'' LOL, they stayed in the south and huddled with the yue peoples.



http://altaic-wiki.w...912186#14476011

Edited by chinesehistoryboy, 19 July 2011 - 07:32 AM.

[chinesehistoryboy]

Read the user jinlong's second reply on the thread. His views on the han dynasty are questionable. He's a manchu, so his views are not surprising.

''han Dynasty was ruled by northerners and a little blood from the south''. who were the northerners. Surely, i hope its not another altaic nationalist claim.

''han people did'nt start migrating to the north until the 3 kingdoms'' LOL, they stayed in the south and huddled with the yue peoples.

http://altaic-wiki.w...912186#14476011

Edited by chinesehistoryboy, 19 July 2011 - 07:32 AM.

[Tibet Libre]

Why do you care? The Manchus have long ceased to be an entity with a separate identity (other than on paper and to gain certain government benefits).

[chinesehistoryboy]

Why do you care? The Manchus have long ceased to be an entity with a separate identity (other than on paper and to gain certain government benefits).

he has a solid knowledge of manchu history although I find some of his statements on other topics quite fallacious. Lol, ruled by northerners. what the hell is a northerner.

[qrasy]

I wonder why you are bringing an old thread to discuss here.

Skimming through the thread, I see claims like "Tibetans and conquered North China" which I never heard of.

Edited by qrasy, 19 July 2011 - 03:36 PM.

[attila12]

The Manchus cease to exist??

Arent' they the second largest minority in China??


Last time I checked they were still around. Also last time I checked, the PRC is trying to be like the Manchus.

The Chiese have to admit that altaic people have influcenced China very much.

So did the Chinese people on Altaic peoples.

The Manchu had a huge influcence on the Chinses and their Culture.

Attila is Altaic, so.......

Belive me, Sinic and Altaic peoples compliment each other. As Each Asian peoples we have achieved a lot. More than European Civilizations or any other.

We shouldn't hate each other.

China bring us the Culture and the Altaic peoples have conquored most of the known world.

East Asians Rule !!!!

[mohistManiac]

Altaics have assimilated with most of the known world in Asia to the great loss of their original nomadic heritages. We can look at the Manchus as the prime example. There would have been far more Manchus had they not all gone native so to speak. Consider this, the Manchu population of the 1640's were perhaps around 500000 but in the course of their relentless battles to take upon captives and add to their core they managed to more than double perhaps even triple those loyal to their campaign. It is clear in these events that Manchus would be quickly assimilated as they intermarry and produce future generations which quickly became less and less tied to their original Manchu identity. But if you have an Manchu surname it is quite possible as I'm sure many people have indeed done, to claim rightful heritage of their Manchu forefathers. There are even communities of Manchus in Taiwan which arrived via the KMT migration route. I believe it would be downright insulting for some northern Chinese to deny their Altaic ancestry altogether against the vastly greater majority which acknowledge that most people in China have some Altaic intermingled bloodline among various others like Yue, Miao, Go Turkic etc. The kind of posts by people like Hooly which prescribe for Han to "trying harder to purify themselves against homo sapiens barbarica" is extremely childish.

[Eidolon]

National purity is a cause necessitated by political nationalism in the modern era. The idea of having a single ethnic identity, bound by ancestry, is a great unifier and propels people to act in their nation's collective interests, which they otherwise would not out of concern for their own family and group's self-interests. This is why Japan, and then Korea, have adopted ideologies of national purity for their people, who under these ideologies become willing to sacrifice themselves for the greatness of the nation. Does China need to do the same? I don't know. But I do think Han nationalism is driven by the same needs.

Edited by Eidolon, 14 June 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[mohistManiac]

National purity is a cause necessitated by political nationalism in the modern era. The idea of having a single ethnic identity, bound by ancestry, is a great unifier and propels people to act in their nation's collective interests, which they otherwise would not out of concern for their own family and group's self-interests. This is why Japan, and then Korea, have adopted ideologies of national purity for their people, who under these ideologies become willing to sacrifice themselves for the greatness of the nation. Does China need to do the same? I don't know. But I do think Han nationalism is driven by the same needs.

China had done the same during the Han dynasty when the Xiongnu fought their campaigns against China and the usual Chinese actors which would have found themselves competing with one another drew themselves into a coalition against the incoming invaders. After the threat was no more the country then began to divide itself. You can have great big nationalism like during the Han dynasty or smaller nationalism like during the three kingdoms period. Yet even smaller nationalism during the warring states period. China would not have been so culturally sensitive to these kinds of issues had it not been for the period of "humiliation" experienced at the hand of western powers and Japan, or the west primarily speaking. The thing is the larger scale nationalism of the modern period is no longer so much an issue about the boundaries of ethnic purity as it is about remaining nationally secure through the state control of various economies of scale. Many ignorant people confuse the two and believe that just because China is as big as it is, the nationalism automatically assumes everyone within its limits to be ethnically same or is forced to become the same etc.

Edited by mohistManiac, 15 June 2012 - 12:04 AM.