15 replies to this topic

[KLdome]

There was a thread about what is China, and someone said overseas communities should also be called Chinese "nations". Singapore has been mentioned over and over as an example.

Malaysia has twice as many Chinese as Singapore (which is 25% non-Chinese), and many cities and districts are majority Chinese, with Chinese elected representatives in government.

I hope we might take into account in our discussions that the largest Chinese community outside of China is in Malaysia.

[YummYakitori]

Dear KLdome,
Singapore has a relatively high percentage of Chinese in our country. 72.4% being locally Chinese and there are still other Chinese who migrated to Singapore from China that are in the Foreigners group and are not counted into this 72.4%.

As Malaysia is where the Malays originate and the President of Malaysia is Malay, it is still considered a Malay country. Singapore has a Chinese president and it's not a place where Malay people originate from, so it is considered a Chinese nation.

However, you have brought up a very good point. China should take Malaysia as a Chinese nation instead since 75% of Malaysians are Chinese.

In Singapore, there are many Malaysian students who immigrated here to become Singapore PR or they still live in Malaysia, but they take the Bas Sekolah to Singapore daily. So Singapore's high Chinese percentile can be partially contributed by Malaysia.

As the name suggests, Malaysia is a Malay nation, I think if Malaysia were to change it's name, it will most probably change perspectives of the other Chinese. But I think it would be very weird if Malaysia were to change it's name as, in this modern world, changing country's names is very rare. It's not like in the past when China could change it's name from Jin to Tang, from Tang to Han, from Han to Qing.

I'm sure Malaysian Chinese still use Bahasa Melayu, and they have a rather funny accent when they talk, it sounds so funny and Singaporeans start laughing. It's becoming a common occurrence in Singapore and it's looked upon as a way to speak Mandarin Chinese in a way to cheer people up.

My Malaysian Chinese friend still induces this accent in her speech sometimes to joke about. But hey, I'm not laughing at Malaysia's Chinese. I'm just saying that the accent is really funny.

It's actually quite unique. It adds a lot of colour to our lives and now this Malaysian Chinese accent even appears on TV.

Many of Mediacorp's actors come from China and Malaysia. Singaporeans are a rare appearance if you were to talk about Mediacorp.

Idk why but I kind of realize Muslims are rather racist in Singapore, they kind of ignore Chinese and communize themselves as an ethnic group 'Malays' and don't interact with us much. They even go to Halal food courts and stare at us when we eat there or walk past by. Do these things happen in Malaysia?

Malaysians probably hate us Chinese for migrating from China over here to Southeast Asia and 'invading' their land and now trying to push them out of this community.

But seriously, if someone were to suddenly invade my country and try to push us out of this community, I would be angry too. It's probably just a defensive human instinct.

Like now, Singapore only has 2.7 million Singapore-born, Singapore-raised citizens. There are about 2 million Non-Singaporeans in Singapore.

In conclusion, I support the idea of Malaysia being a Chinese national.

[xng]

I hope we might take into account in our discussions that the largest Chinese community outside of China is in Malaysia.

I can't believe there are so many wrong facts learned from younger generation nowadays ! Let me correct them.

1. The largest Chinese community outside of China/Taiwan is Thailand not Malaysia. But most Thailand chinese don't know how to speak any chinese languages fluently. If you were to say largest overseas Chinese who can speak/read any one chinese language fluently, then it is Malaysia.

Malaysians probably hate us Chinese for migrating from China over here to Southeast Asia and 'invading' their land and now trying to push them out of this community.

2. The word 'Malaysians' is a nationality and not ethnicity. Malaysians doesn't equate to Malays !

3. A large number (>50%) of Singaporeans are actually Malaysian Chinese or with one or more parents who were Malaysians, so I wouldn't separate between Malaysia and Singapore chinese. They were part of the straits settlement (120 years) and part of Malaysia (3 years), so they have similar accents (even though some will deny it).

4. The Malays didn't originate from Malaysia but Indonesia if you look at their ancestries. Similarly, the malays came to Singapore before the chinese, the same way as happened in the peninsular. Parameswara who ruled Singapore was a srivajaya prince with its power base in Sumatra, Indonesia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srivijaya

Edited by xng, 27 September 2011 - 08:48 AM.

[KLdome]

Thank you, xng, for bringing to my attention the larger population of Chinese descendants in Thailand. I have long held the misperception that Malaysia was larger but Googling confirms your point.

The thread that prompted my comment was about how to define China, what makes a nation, etc. There is room for discussion about whether the larger Chinese pool in Thailand can be considered a Chinese "nation" since many of them do not practice their ancestral language or culture. However, that questions whether many Chinese-Americans are members of a Chinese "nation" or not.

My posting here was a sort of complaint that Singapore seems to be seen as the sole regional Chinese community, whereas there ia much larger one right next door.

[Jeff_R]

what kind of people consider singapore a chinese nation?

[mohistManiac]

I thought Singaporeans which came from Taiwan and China might have something to do with it although it also seems many other Asian countries also deserve their fair share. The nature of "Chinese" is itself a very composite entity and anything overseas would simply add to that as time goes on. What's the harm that could be done in calling a few more places Chinese nations without having their full cooperative integration into mainland politics?

[YummYakitori]

Dear xng,
Thanks for correcting my mistakes. I'm not really familiar with Singapore's population and what is it made up of. you made me learn quite alot. But, yes, sure though, some singaporeans carry the Malaysian accent, but the don't use it as thick as pure Malaysians do.

Dear Jeff_R,
Many people from Mainland China and Taiwan do so for some apparent reason.

Yours sincerely,
YummYakitori

[oldbreadstinks]

it's because the majority of the population is chinese which leads to that, more than 70% are chinese and political power, govt power is mainly held in chinese politicians. hence to put it in an ugly way, the chinese are the ruling race in singapore.

because of this we also stick out like a sore thumb in this region when our neighbours have chinese populations as minorities. (malaysia/indonesia)

but if posible I would preferred for my country not to be referred to as a "chinese nation"

[oldbreadstinks]

Dear KLdome,
Singapore has a relatively high percentage of Chinese in our country. 72.4% being locally Chinese and there are still other Chinese who migrated to Singapore from China that are in the Foreigners group and are not counted into this 72.4%.

As Malaysia is where the Malays originate and the President of Malaysia is Malay, it is still considered a Malay country. Singapore has a Chinese president and it's not a place where Malay people originate from, so it is considered a Chinese nation.

However, you have brought up a very good point. China should take Malaysia as a Chinese nation instead since 75% of Malaysians are Chinese.

In Singapore, there are many Malaysian students who immigrated here to become Singapore PR or they still live in Malaysia, but they take the Bas Sekolah to Singapore daily. So Singapore's high Chinese percentile can be partially contributed by Malaysia.

As the name suggests, Malaysia is a Malay nation, I think if Malaysia were to change it's name, it will most probably change perspectives of the other Chinese. But I think it would be very weird if Malaysia were to change it's name as, in this modern world, changing country's names is very rare. It's not like in the past when China could change it's name from Jin to Tang, from Tang to Han, from Han to Qing.

I'm sure Malaysian Chinese still use Bahasa Melayu, and they have a rather funny accent when they talk, it sounds so funny and Singaporeans start laughing. It's becoming a common occurrence in Singapore and it's looked upon as a way to speak Mandarin Chinese in a way to cheer people up.

My Malaysian Chinese friend still induces this accent in her speech sometimes to joke about. But hey, I'm not laughing at Malaysia's Chinese. I'm just saying that the accent is really funny.

It's actually quite unique. It adds a lot of colour to our lives and now this Malaysian Chinese accent even appears on TV.

Many of Mediacorp's actors come from China and Malaysia. Singaporeans are a rare appearance if you were to talk about Mediacorp.

Idk why but I kind of realize Muslims are rather racist in Singapore, they kind of ignore Chinese and communize themselves as an ethnic group 'Malays' and don't interact with us much. They even go to Halal food courts and stare at us when we eat there or walk past by. Do these things happen in Malaysia?

Malaysians probably hate us Chinese for migrating from China over here to Southeast Asia and 'invading' their land and now trying to push them out of this community.

But seriously, if someone were to suddenly invade my country and try to push us out of this community, I would be angry too. It's probably just a defensive human instinct.

Like now, Singapore only has 2.7 million Singapore-born, Singapore-raised citizens. There are about 2 million Non-Singaporeans in Singapore.

In conclusion, I support the idea of Malaysia being a Chinese national.

at the rate we take in new citizens, I doubt that 2.7 million are all singapore born and raised. at 5.2 million and eligible voters including new citizens at 2.2 million there is no way we have 2.7 true blue singaporeans.

chinese people do keep to themselves too, and we actually carry that out to a heavier extend compared to the malay/muslim community

malaysia doesn't have a president. they have a king
as far as I remembered malays are the majority in malaysia, there is no reason for them to become a "chinese national" to even suggest that is insulting. their youth politicians have even waved kris in the parliament to show how much they're against that.

malaysians don't have a funny accent, they simply don't speak mandarin as a first language. the ones in penang and johore sound closer to what singaporean chinese sounds like because we speak more hokkien and mandarin.

[oldbreadstinks]

what kind of people consider singapore a chinese nation?

generally the kind we don't want to consider us as a chinese nation

the ones who either want something from us

or

the ones looking for trouble from us because of the "chinese" label

Edited by oldbreadstinks, 30 September 2011 - 12:11 PM.

[General_Zhaoyun]

Chinese nation as in a nation composed of majority Huaren 華人 （華人國家）- Chinese nation. Most Chinese culture-oriented Singaporeans, PRC folks, Hongkongkers and Taiwanese will generally consider Singapore as a Chinese nation, because majority of the people here are of Chinese descent.
But to prevent racism and to emphasize Singapore as a multi-ethnic states and national identity, the government does not officially endorse itself as a "Chinese nation", and instead emphasize on multi-racialism.

However, you can also say that Singapore is a "weird" Chinese nation, because the official first language of Singapore (i.e. lingua franca) is not Chinese, but English instead. Majority of Singaporean Chinese today are English-educated, though they are taught Chinese at school. Even quite a big portion of Singaporean Chinese's mother tongue (home language) had changed to English instead of Chinese. Mandarin is only spoken as a lingua franca amongst the Singaporean Chinese, but not to Malays or Indian Singaporeans.

If it's a "Chinese nation", Chinese language should be the language used in the government, education and business. Instead, it inherits the system from the colonial British rule and uses English instead.

Singapore is just a state that wants to preserve the colonial language of English for its benefit in global business, science and technology, yet on the other hand also wants to preserve Chinese language and culture for Singaporean Chinese in order to maintain a distinctive Asian cultural roots.

[YummYakitori]

Chinese nation as in a nation composed of majority Huaren 華人 （華人國家）- Chinese nation. Most Chinese culture-oriented Singaporeans, PRC folks, Hongkongkers and Taiwanese will generally consider Singapore as a Chinese nation, because majority of the people here are of Chinese descent.
But to prevent racism and to emphasize Singapore as a multi-ethnic states and national identity, the government does not officially endorse itself as a "Chinese nation", and instead emphasize on multi-racialism.

However, you can also say that Singapore is a "weird" Chinese nation, because the official first language of Singapore (i.e. lingua franca) is not Chinese, but English instead. Majority of Singaporean Chinese today are English-educated, though they are taught Chinese at school. Even quite a big portion of Singaporean Chinese's mother tongue (home language) had changed to English instead of Chinese. Mandarin is only spoken as a lingua franca amongst the Singaporean Chinese, but not to Malays or Indian Singaporeans.

If it's a "Chinese nation", Chinese language should be the language used in the government, education and business. Instead, it inherits the system from the colonial British rule and uses English instead.

Singapore is just a state that wants to preserve the colonial language of English for its benefit in global business, science and technology, yet on the other hand also wants to preserve Chinese language and culture for Singaporean Chinese in order to maintain a distinctive Asian cultural roots.

Haha. I still use Mandarin Chinese at home to talk to my siblings, parents, grandparents and the like. Let's preserve our cultural roots

[Parameswara]

Singapore is a Malay country which Malay as the national language. Singapore has only been colonised twice in its entire history. First, by the Tamils(Sri Vijaya Empire) then by the Britsh.

 

It was the Tamils who named the island to Singapore(Lion City in Tamil). Originally, the country was called Temasak(Malay native name).

 

Singapore has never even had a chinese name before. Its first President is Malay(Yusof Ishak) and the longest serving President is Tamil(SR Nathan).Chinese in Singapore are of immigrant background, mostly originating from mainland china.

 

Chinese originated from China therefore Singapore is not a chinese nation.

Edited by Parameswara, 29 January 2013 - 12:27 AM.

[mrclub]

Just simply because our population majority are Chinese...But whether or not we should consider Singapore as a Chinese nation is another issue.

 

After all, the Chinese people arrived here not very long ago, perhaps since 19th century only.

[Korin]

In short answer: I heard english is primary language in Singapore. Most people there speak it and another language or two. Am I correct?