150 replies to this topic

[xxxamazexxx]

大家好！
This is my first post on this forum, and it's going to be lengthy; yet I hope it contains the information, however obscure, sufficient for a better understanding of Chinese community in Vietnam.

First of all, in some respect, some 70 millions of the 90-million Vietnamese population are Chinese by distant ancestry. This arresting piece of information is the result of my own honest, neutral research on Vietnam's historical relationship with China, following the recent brawl on sea between the two countries.

Being an ethnic 'Kinh' - the dominant ethnicity in Vietnam and largely regarded as the standard Vietnamese identity - I have been incessantly questioned and questioned myself if I am 'Chinese'. The most often raised objections to my declaration as being strictly a Vietnamese are the way I look, the tongue I speak, the culture I adhere to, the name I bear, all of which are strongly similar to their Chinese counterparts. Most people can't distinguish a Vietnamese from a Chinese using the physical or cultural indicators. As to the language, Vietnamese is easily confused with Cantonese; 50% of the Vietnamese vocabulary are unadulterated borrowals from Chinese. 100 years ago, Vietnam still used the Chinese-based writing system and was China's largest vassal state.

There have been quite a number of books elucidating the matter of the origin of the country now called Vietnam. The North of Vietnam DID start off as an independent tribal state, possessing their own culture, language,... before it was annexed, and with the provinces of Guangdong and Guangxi jointly established as Nanyue (Vietnamese: Nam Viet). This state was eventually assimilated into the greater Chinese empire. The assimilation took place vigorously for 1000 years, wiping out almost every remnants of the earlier tribal civilization. What constitutes the contemporary Vietnamese society today is indeed what finally became as a result of this extensive Sinicization back then.

The subtle, pivotal, and controversial part in this historical narrative is about not the early tribal inhabitants but rather the Chinese people sent to administer their empire's newly acquired land. Somehow, while performing the assimilation as they were supposed to, they identified with the local culture and the local people, progressively carving out a cultural and societal identity that is predominantly Chinese but with certain Vietnamese eccentricities. (In the contemporary context, this is apparently reflected in the existing disparities between Chinese and Vietnamese language, cuisine, arts... There are not many of them, but if one looks closely enough one will find out.)

A large demographics of the hitherto Chinese settlers in Vietnam were prisoners or severely deprived people, who developed the said inclination towards the local society and eventually the resentment towards the Chinese rulers. 1000 years ago, they decided to stop being Chinese, and started being Vietnamese, establishing the country through a series of struggles. The rest was history. As did they, we thus vehemently deny being Chinese while bearing undeniable Chinese characteristics.

All Vietnamese were taught in school that we descended from the tribal people, and the Chinese part in us were purely involuntary. In fact, I only recently came to see myself and most other Vietnamese as distant Chinese descendants in light of the findings that I discovered. But the Chinese part in us, inherited from our forefathers, dictated unequivocally that we must recognize ourselves as non-Chinese. I suppose this seeming paradox underlies the question of 'Are Vietnamese Chinese?', which, if you have followed through this post, has no definite answer.

[xxxamazexxx]

The reason why I believe the Vietnamese can be considered as Chinese diasporas is that the Chinese influences in us are largely undiluted in spite of ourselves. One analogous hypothesis I can think of involves the Chinese Singaporeans (I am studying in Singapore at present). Imagine 1000 years from now, would they, while being strongly Chinese still, identify themselves as Chinese anymore? Or would they have carved out a distinctive Singaporean identity that they would swear to however paradoxical it were, as it is in the context of Vietnam? Why would you identify them as Chinese? But then, why wouldn't you?

The second and last part of my post seeks to address the remaining questions about the issue of Chinese ethnicity in Vietnam.

As I stated above, I belong to the 'Kinh' ethnicity, which is what our Chinese ancestors decided to become in opposition to their former allegiance to China. 86% of the Vietnamese are Kinh - the rest belong to minority races, the largest of which is Hoa (华) (pardon my elementary Mandarin). These Hoa people are relatively recent Chinese immigrants who chose to stay in Vietnam 300, 400 years ago, and whom most recognize as Chinese diasporas in Vietnam.

They did not decide to fully relinquish the Chinese identity as the Kinh people did. This had to do with their motive when coming to Vietnam: many of them were simply fleeing China following the collapse of Ming dynasty. Their allegiance to China remained strong, preventing them from assimilating into the Kinh population, which would otherwise be an effortless and welcome thing to do. Of course, a sizable portion did eventually assimilate and no longer identify themselves as Hoa, but whoever did not are still aware of their being Chinese and from China.

Most, if not all, Hoa people reside in South Vietnam, particularly Ho Chi Minh city; very few Hoa exist in the North. For this I propose some explanations. The immigration of Chinese to Vietnam coincided with its annexation of the Cham nation - a part of the Khmer empire - which is now Central and South Vietnam. The Chinese arriving by sea were encouraged by the Vietnamese rulers to explore and settle in this area, where they now remain.

However, it is a valid argument that the Chinese immigrants may have much preferred to travel to North Vietnam. The option saved them the peril of sea-voyaging, and promised clearer, better prospects of livelihood than that of exploring South Vietnam. I suppose that being situated in a high concentration of Kinh, they may have assimilated themselves and gradually come to be Kinh out of convenience. Therefore, among the Kinh population in North Vietnam, many were originally Hoa without knowing it, or having forgotten it. One may call this group the latent Chinese diaspora. I myself may be one those, my strange surname being the chief indicator. The Kinh people possess a recognizably limited number of surnames (Nguyen 阮, Tran 陈，etc.) which are all Chinese-based. Other offbeat surnames are believed to have originated in China where the variation is much richer.

There used to be prominent Chinese concentrations in North Vietnam, yet the partition of the country into Communist-ruled North Vietnam and Capitalist-ruled South Vietnam drove many Hoa southwards. However, the biggest blow was the short-lived but horrible China-Vietnam border war. The government implicitly required them to fully identify themselves as Kinh, or leave the country to avoid ill treatments. In fact, half of the Vietnamese overseas are Hoa people, who migrated to avoid either Communism or government's persecution. Inevitably, the only sizable population of existing Hoa people in Vietnam are in the south.

Surely the issue of Chinese ethnicity in Vietnam is a mixed bag, full of troublesome paradoxes and complications. But by attempting to tackle it I hope to have presented here a more comprehensive, though imperfect understanding of a phenomenon more profound than it is common regarded as.

Edited by xxxamazexxx, 02 October 2011 - 05:08 PM.

[mohistManiac]

this post is faulty

Edited by mohistManiac, 02 October 2011 - 07:41 PM.

[mohistManiac]

This is indeed a tough question but I might venture an alternative possibility. It was perhaps more convenient for the Vietnamese to be seen not as Chinese but as Vietnamese for historical reasons. Because they were on the periphery any tax revenue which would otherwise aid in their security, construction, maintenance, welfare etc would have drained into the places much nearer the Chinese capitals. In other words it would seem they declared their independence out of the inconvenience of not being rewarded for being within the empire state and not out of whatever allegiance they might have had. The situation of vassalage proved more beneficial for those that willingly entered into the system as it functioned no more than a program of trade. Vassal members were in fact on the better end of the trade imbalance which ultimately resulted. China bought into its allied surroundings in order to keep the peace. The fact that has to be seen is that China, historically speaking, was not the sovereign super master that it advertises itself to be. Chinese history chooses to glorify the dynastic successions but in turn reveal just how fragile its political system really was despite the niceties of honor that come along with managing an large chunk of land along with the dozens of kinds of people living inside it.

Edited by mohistManiac, 02 October 2011 - 07:40 PM.

[YummYakitori]

I find that alot of Vietnamese carry the surname 阮 (Nguyen), is there any reason for this? So far more than 85% of the Vietnamese I've seen carry the surname Nguyen.

From what it appears, 阮 (Nguyen) in Chinese is Yuan, which sounds quite similar. Vietnam and China has alot of similarities because their geographic position is so close.

The Khmer empire in the past seems to have affected many neighboring countries' culture, food and traditional wear. Countries that are being affected include Thailand and Laos. But I don't really find myself thinking that Vietnam has been affected much by the Khmer culture.

Just being curious here, if the Khmer empire was so big then, why is it reduced to a state of this size now? Did the Thais and Lao rebel the Khmer empire?

They all say Thailand (previously Siam) was very fierce. But then Siam even lost to Khmer, so Khmer must be really strong.

Back to the topic, I think Vietnamese can be considered a mix of Chinese and their own native. Some Vietnamese dishes in Vietnam seem to have a distinct Chinese taste to it.

Vietnamese dishes include noodles, dumplings, rolls etc. These somehow taste Chinese.

History, is a treasure chest full of items, you will have to dig it yourself to find the gold in it and get that sense of satisfaction.

[xxxamazexxx]

1. I have no authoritative explanation as to why the surname Nguyen so prevails. But it could be that the last feudal dynasty to rule Vietnam was the Nguyen dynasty, which could have inspired many to change their surname to Nguyen in order to gain favor and ascendancy in the old society.

2. You make a very pertinent observation. As I said in my first post, 50% of the Vietnamese vocabulary are derived from Chinese. Our names are Chinese. The integration of Chinese in the Vietnamese language is so systematic and consistent that some people even assume Vietnamese to be a Chinese dialect.

3. I believe that Vietnam and China have so many similarities rather because they used to be ONE for as long as Vietnam has been an independent state (1000 years).

4. The Khmer empire was very strong. But like any other empire it must have had its ups and downs, and it was unfortunate that their 'downs' coincided with other nations' 'ups', causing their defeat and annexation to other kingdoms. I heard that the Laos are actually closer to the Thais people than to the Khmers, thus they both may never have been considered part of the Khmer empire to begin with.

[xng]

the tongue I speak, the culture I adhere to, the name I bear, all of which are strongly similar to their Chinese counterparts. Most people can't distinguish a Vietnamese from a Chinese using the physical or cultural indicators. As to the language, Vietnamese is easily confused with Cantonese; 50% of the Vietnamese vocabulary are unadulterated borrowals from Chinese. 100 years ago, Vietnam still used the Chinese-based writing system and was China's largest vassal state.

I agree with most of your statements except that Vietnamese language is not easily confused with Cantonese, I speak Cantonese and I can't understand even basic Vietnamese. The basic words in Vietnamese are actually khmer words, so how did these basic words got into the vietnamese language in the first place if the ancient vietnamese were not khmer people themselves ?

I do believe that there were intermarriages between chinese and native viets in the 1000 years history under China's rule but since there aren't any solid proof, there has been attacks on this argument by forummers in the past. But from past history of other countries, it is not impossible for this to happen.

For example, in Malaysia/Singapore, there is this group of people call baba/nyonya who are actually descendants of intermarriage between the Chinese and Malays. Just within a few hundred years from year 1400 onwards, the community grew quite large even though Malaysia/Singapore was not under China's rule. So how can intermarriage not happen in Vietnam when Vietnam had 2000 years of interaction with the Chinese people (either under direct rule or vassal state)

Edited by xng, 03 October 2011 - 12:05 PM.

[xng]

The Khmer empire in the past seems to have affected many neighboring countries' culture, food and traditional wear. Countries that are being affected include Thailand and Laos. But I don't really find myself thinking that Vietnam has been affected much by the Khmer culture.

Just being curious here, if the Khmer empire was so big then, why is it reduced to a state of this size now? Did the Thais and Lao rebel the Khmer empire?

The mon-khmer people are the natives of Burma, Thailand, Laos and South Vietnam. The Tais came from Yunnan/Guangxi of South China and conquered the current land of Thailand and Laos. The Khmer empire didn't 'affect' their culture as the Khmer living in Thailand/Laos originally had the culture. It was the invading Tai people who somehow got assimilated into the native culture.

However, the Vietnamese moved south and conquered the current land of South Vietnam which were originally Khmer land. In this case, it is the Khmer people living in South Vietnam (around Mekong delta) who assimilated into the vietnamese culture.

Champa is a different story as the people there are of Austronesian/Malay origin and not mon-khmer. They originated from Philippines/Indonesian islands. There are some reports that most of the chams (who are muslims) migrated to Malaysia after their country were destroyed.

Edited by xng, 03 October 2011 - 12:13 PM.

[Trimac20]

As they say, the reason why some people are Chinese and some are Vietnamese is more due to history.

If, say during the Warring States period, Yue people successfully established a kingdom and it wasn't conquered by the other groups, there might be another nation in Southern China today, distinct with the main Chinese civilisation. These people might not identify as Chinese, and would be no different to the Vietnamese. At least a large branch of Vietnam's heritage comes from China - Nam Viet was a kingdom based in Northern China, but i think they've been separate for so long now that they're not really Chinese. Then again, I still view the 'Han ethnicity' as a political thing. To me, Cantonese sounds more nasal like SE Asian languages. I more often confuse it with Vietnamese than Mandarin although I only speak English. I feel the Southern Chinese are in many ways culturally as close to Vietnamese as to Northern Chinese. Northern Chinese are in some ways closer to Koreans than Cantonese or Hoklo. Either way, Vietnam is one of China's close 'cousins' in the Sinosphere, slightly closer to me (maybe not to a Chinese person from the PRC) than Korea even. Japan is a more distant cousin. I love Vietnamese food, have been to Vietnam, and I think it's interesting they have some of their own customs, like the Koreans, despite being so Chinese influenced. Their royal palace/Citadel at Hue was like a smaller version of the Forbidden City.

[mohistManiac]

As they say, the reason why some people are Chinese and some are Vietnamese is more due to history.

If, say during the Warring States period, Yue people successfully established a kingdom and it wasn't conquered by the other groups, there might be another nation in Southern China today, distinct with the main Chinese civilisation. These people might not identify as Chinese, and would be no different to the Vietnamese. At least a large branch of Vietnam's heritage comes from China - Nam Viet was a kingdom based in Northern China, but i think they've been separate for so long now that they're not really Chinese. Then again, I still view the 'Han ethnicity' as a political thing. To me, Cantonese sounds more nasal like SE Asian languages. I more often confuse it with Vietnamese than Mandarin although I only speak English. I feel the Southern Chinese are in many ways culturally as close to Vietnamese as to Northern Chinese. Northern Chinese are in some ways closer to Koreans than Cantonese or Hoklo. Either way, Vietnam is one of China's close 'cousins' in the Sinosphere, slightly closer to me (maybe not to a Chinese person from the PRC) than Korea even. Japan is a more distant cousin. I love Vietnamese food, have been to Vietnam, and I think it's interesting they have some of their own customs, like the Koreans, despite being so Chinese influenced. Their royal palace/Citadel at Hue was like a smaller version of the Forbidden City.

If the Yue state swallowed Wu, Chu and all the other states, China would be no different to the Vietnamese? That's a misconception. You certainly wouldn't say if Qi state had survived and toppled Qin empire everyone in China would eventually be no different from Korea. Vietnam at this time did not side with this Yue nor would it ever. Just like Khitans Jurchens Mongolians which are similar to Koreans did not team up with Qi state. You are talking about points in history which happened later. Furthermore the northern Chinese saw its periphery as Yue due to gradually decreasing geographic knowledge. That is why they called people at their own front doorstep Yue. If their knowledge had extended as far as the 21 parallel then there would be no need to call the 30 parallel Yue. 30 degree parallel would theoretically appear to be just another Xia kingdom. There was a Yue at 30 degrees, a Nanhai commandary in Nanyue at 23 degrees, and a Yuenan at 21 degrees. Yuenam was not based in northern China it was based on Hanoi which experienced departure from the rest of the Yues altogether during the tumult of 5 dynasties 10 kingdoms. It thus began to develop its own language and culture but that doesn't make the original Yuenan area anymore the original Chinese than it makes Koreans the original Chinese. Original Chinese civilization have always been at the Yue location, not the Vietnam one not the Liaoning one not the Xinjiang one.

[lmtdeptrai]

Hello, this is my first post. If something is wrong, please tell me.

 

First I will introduce myself. My name is Luong Manh Tuan and I am Vietnamese. The name itself tells it: Luong Manh Tuan is how you say in Vietnam for 良孟峻. That was my name in Chinese when I was born, but as long as my family history is concerned, I am no Chinese. Yet people still think I am Chinese because of my face.

 

Then it came to me: Is this because I look Chinese that I am Chinese? Maybe. But are Americans British? Are Singaporean Chinese? The former look and speak English and most of the latter look and speak Chinese. Is there any connection? Personally I can't speak Chinese even though I want to.

 

Then I read an article on this problem. The writer, an anthropologist and historian, wrote that Vietnamese and Chinese, southern Chinese in particular, have the similar ancestry, if not almost the same. He wrote that in ancient times people in ancient Vietnam today migrated to southern China and then to Japan. There they met the ancestors of northern Chinese and they interbred. Their children became northern Han Chinese today. After that the northern Han migrated back to the south and assimilated the people there of Vietnamese ancestry. That's why people in northern Vietnam and southern China today look the same: they are actually brothers! And both are related to northern Chinese. So it became that Vietnamese and Chinese are not so different.

 

So, my Chinese friends and I may be brothers of some kind. But why Vietnamese and Chinese now are not of the same nation, even though we are related by blood for at least 1,000 years?

 

In my opinion, the Vietnamese in the past managed to create for themselves an awareness that they are not Chinese and a culture that are different enough from that of China to call themselves something else. And then they had enough power and resources to separate themselves from China. And that's how the Vietnamese are here today.

 

About the part that Vietnamese and Chinese are too similar, it is fine for me. There are my groups of Chinese too, they are similar but are they the same? And frankly, are overseas Chinese really Chinese? If the Vietnamese live in China and renounce their being Vietnamese then I think it makes no difference then. But the Vietnamese want to be apart from China and they still want to think it that way.

 

In conclusion, I don't think we can say Vietnamese are Chinese, but we may be brothers of some kind, and we live next to each other. Let's appreciate that and stop hating each other

[xng]

Then it came to me: Is this because I look Chinese that I am Chinese? Maybe. But are Americans British? Are Singaporean Chinese? The former look and speak English and most of the latter look and speak Chinese. Is there any connection? Personally I can't speak Chinese even though I want to.

 

Then I read an article on this problem. The writer, an anthropologist and historian, wrote that Vietnamese and Chinese, southern Chinese in particular, have the similar ancestry, if not almost the same. He wrote that in ancient times people in ancient Vietnam today migrated to southern China and then to Japan.

 

 

The average vietnamese look like chinese is because Vietnam/Annam was under chinese rule for 1000 years before 938 AD and 20 years during Ming dynasty. And not what the 'historian' told you.

 

During those times, it is illogical to say that there were NO intermarriage between southern chinese and north vietnamese. (as some vietnamese haters in this forum will tell you)

 

Even during the 100 years of French rule and American intervention before 1975, there were some intermarriage between American/French and vietnamese. 

 

Whether an ethnic group is related or not, can be seen from their native tongue. Why is vietnamese language grouped under Mon-Khmer which means they are related to the Khmer people of South Vietnam and cambodia.

 

All southern chinese languages hakka, cantonese, hokkien are grouped under Sino-Tibetan language family which means they have the same ancestors as the Mandarin (North China) speakers.

 

Whereas Vietnamese language is NOT grouped under Sino-Tibetan.

 

I find it strange that the North Vietnamese look like Southern Chinese but speak a Khmer language which is similar to those dark skin cambodians.

 

That is why I suspect that the North Vietnamese are originaly Tai-Kadai people and Tai-Kadai people do look like Southern Chinese as they both have fair skin and oval shaped eyes unlike the Khmer people with darker skin and round eyes.

 

Of course, the 1000 years of under China rule meant that there is a certain percentage of intermarriage and migration between North Vietnamese and Southern Chinese.

 

Even the vietnamese architect who build the imperial palace in Beijing can migrate to China.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_An

Edited by xng, 25 January 2013 - 12:29 AM.

[BlackHumour]

From what i currently know, the Vietnamese, Korean & Japanese languages are under the Sino-Xenic group of languages (all 3 have an average of 50% Sinic vocabulary), it is a group where Chinese vocabulary and script is largely borrowed and integrated with their native language. The reason why Vietnam is the most "Chinese" or rather Sinitic when compared to the other 2 Sinitic cultures (Japan & Korea) is because Vietnam was part of China for around 1000 years, that's a whole lot of time to make a cultural identity similiar to it's parent one, no matter how strong the resistance.

 

Perhaps why people are so hesitant or reluctant to group Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, even Burmese, Thai, Mongolic/Khitan, Jurchen/Manchurian, Turkestanic and to a small extent (or big, my understanding of their cultures are at best miserable, but the similarities are too striking) Tibetan (Including Nepalese & Bhutanese) & Laotian are part of what I call a Sinitic cultural & language group is because we all claim them to be Chinese or rather we claim that they are still Chinese, whether on purpose or not. I would not deny that they are still Chinese but they are already a new class of their own. It is much like the status of Birds, for example, in Zoology vs Evolutionary Zoology (any living organism will do, but birds are my specialty). Birds are the only surviving linage of the dinosaurs, to be specific, the Paraves from the Maniraptorans of the Theropods. Now since Aves are Dinosaurs then they are by right Reptiles, and they are! But they have diverge so much physically, behaviourally and even genetically, they form a new class of their own (along with families, genuses & species), but they are still and will always be Reptiles. Just like how Humans and our descendants will always be Apes and how all Vetrebrates will always be Lobe-Finned Fishes but yet We will all be a unique class of our own. I believe that it is the same with cultural identities, all our cultures are of a prehistoric African one which have evolved over the time into our current situation, we all all so different but yet we are one because of our ancestry.

 

I would say that genetically, the groups that i have mentioned would be rather close and this now also extents to the Tungic people, Eskimos, Inuit and many other Native North Americans, but i don't have much resources about this so i would not go any further. But the main problem is that now, governments are the ones advocating racial segregations despite the truth is that we are the same, just of different varients. Racial segregation and it's by-product, nationalism, is a main contributing factor in maintaining a hold on power fo small kingdoms back then. So to answer your question, yes, Vietnamese are Chinese but they are a unique class of their own. Like how Birds are "half", well, Birds they too are "half" Reptiles also, it is similiar to what we are facing now. We should all work together to form a Sinitic Cultural group and fight alongside and with what i would hesitate to scientifically call, but politically and to a lesser extant culturally they are, outsiders .

 

P.S I am Cantonese and the Sinitic vocabs in Viet are very similiar to Cantonese, if they speak slowly i might even be able to understand.

[YummYakitori]

From what i currently know, the Vietnamese, Korean & Japanese languages are under the Sino-Xenic group of languages (all 3 have an average of 50% Sinic vocabulary), it is a group where Chinese vocabulary and script is largely borrowed and integrated with their native language. The reason why Vietnam is the most "Chinese" or rather Sinitic when compared to the other 2 Sinitic cultures (Japan & Korea) is because Vietnam was part of China for around 1000 years, that's a whole lot of time to make a cultural identity similiar to it's parent one, no matter how strong the resistance.
 
Perhaps why people are so hesitant or reluctant to group Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, even Burmese, Thai, Mongolic/Khitan, Jurchen/Manchurian, Turkestanic and to a small extent (or big, my understanding of their cultures are at best miserable, but the similarities are too striking) Tibetan (Including Nepalese & Bhutanese) & Laotian are part of what I call a Sinitic cultural & language group is because we all claim them to be Chinese or rather we claim that they are still Chinese, whether on purpose or not. I would not deny that they are still Chinese but they are already a new class of their own. It is much like the status of Birds, for example, in Zoology vs Evolutionary Zoology (any living organism will do, but birds are my specialty). Birds are the only surviving linage of the dinosaurs, to be specific, the Paraves from the Maniraptorans of the Theropods. Now since Aves are Dinosaurs then they are by right Reptiles, and they are! But they have diverge so much physically, behaviourally and even genetically, they form a new class of their own (along with families, genuses & species), but they are still and will always be Reptiles. Just like how Humans and our descendants will always be Apes and how all Vetrebrates will always be Lobe-Finned Fishes but yet We will all be a unique class of our own. I believe that it is the same with cultural identities, all our cultures are of a prehistoric African one which have evolved over the time into our current situation, we all all so different but yet we are one because of our ancestry.
 
I would say that genetically, the groups that i have mentioned would be rather close and this now also extents to the Tungic people, Eskimos, Inuit and many other Native North Americans, but i don't have much resources about this so i would not go any further. But the main problem is that now, governments are the ones advocating racial segregations despite the truth is that we are the same, just of different varients. Racial segregation and it's by-product, nationalism, is a main contributing factor in maintaining a hold on power fo small kingdoms back then. So to answer your question, yes, Vietnamese are Chinese but they are a unique class of their own. Like how Birds are "half", well, Birds they too are "half" Reptiles also, it is similiar to what we are facing now. We should all work together to form a Sinitic Cultural group and fight alongside and with what i would hesitate to scientifically call, but politically and to a lesser extant culturally they are, outsiders .
 
P.S I am Cantonese and the Sinitic vocabs in Viet are very similiar to Cantonese, if they speak slowly i might even be able to understand.

Sino-Vietnamese vocabulary is actually pretty easy to identify. You don't need to be Cantonese to identify. I'm Chaozhou + Hokkien and I can still identify.

An Toan Giao Thong = 安全交通 = Safe Traffic
Quang Vinh Muon Nam = 光明萬年 = Long Live
Dai Quoc = 大國 = Big Country

You can try going onto YouTube and watching the Vietnamese protest for Hoang Sa and Truong Sa Islands. It sounds like they are shouting "打倒中國" (Da Dao Truong Quoc) (Defeat China) and "反對中國" (Van Duoi Trung Quoc) (Oppose China)

[BlackHumour]

Even Sino-Korean terms are easy.

 

公主，王子，男子 even SNSD is easy; 少女时代。

 

Some Sino-Japanese are also easily recgonised, like the numbers, banzai, kanji and so on.

 

It's sad that we hate each other now.