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How to translate "五服、六服、九服"

Translation

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#1 lgeorge

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Posted 19 June 2012 - 03:21 PM

Can any one help me to translate the following into English? They come from an article about Central Asia history. Thank you in advance.

  • 挂在嘴边的说词
  • 五服、六服、九服 (This is only for reference 王都距离和关系远近划分为诸服,有五服、三服、六服、九服等说)
  • 桃花石化
  • 乌古斯化
  • 塔特化
  • 葛逻禄化
  • 奥格拉克化
  • 坎切克化
  • 派噶木巴尔
  • 霍集斯族属
  • 霍什克族属


#2 Meiguo Laowai

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:07 AM

  • 挂在嘴边的说词
挂在嘴边 to keep saying over and over (MDBG).
“说词” (recited lyrics)是瑶族民间文学中一个特有的种类,一般不须入乐,以独诵或对诵的形式来朗诵多属排偶句的成文,其内容或涉及乡规民约,或为订亲娶亲、新房落成时说的吉利话,是极见民间语言技巧和聪明才智的口头文学形式。主要有“石牌话”,“说亲话”、“彩头话”等。http://baike.baidu.c...iew/1451202.htm
So, it looks like "a lyric said over and over."
Point 1 - the best person to translate these phrases is a native who KNOWS them already, not a non-native linguist who has to look them up in a dictionary.
Point 2 - for the rest of us, anything meaningful isn't much use, generally speaking, without the context in which the phrase appears. The context helps to validate the meaning, and often changes the meaning from the literal.

You can see the time involved for me to go after these phrases. However, I'll scan down the list for any I do recognize without a dictionary in hand.
  • 五服、六服、九服 (This is only for reference 王都距离和关系远近划分为诸服,有五服、三服、六服、九服等说)
These terms may be for degrees of mourning in old China. The following extract from the Underfoot of the novel Yang Shen explains.

Reviewing Legal cases. The source for cases at law is Derk Bodde and Clarence Morris, 1973 Law in Imperial China [LIC], a seminal work in the study of Chinese law which presents 190 cases documented in original Chinese sources. This extraordinary book describes at length the administration and conduct of Chinese courts, the context of the Ch’ing legal code, and presents a comparison of the interpretation of statutes in China and the West. The three cases adapted for review by Wu Hsü and Liu Hsün-kao in Yang Shen are based on the following cases in Bodde and Morris:

151.8 (1813) – First case: The Tomb Violator, p. 310
11.1 (1826) – Second case: Criminal Excused to Care for Aged Parents, p. 223 (case cited is on p. 225)
161.3 (1832) – Third case: The Murdered Businessmen, p. 325

The Ch’ing legal code incorporated degrees of mourning into its statues by determining severity of punishment for crimes according to mourning relationship. Thus, crimes committed against parents were punished more harshly than crimes against cousins, or people more distantly related. The five degrees of mourning, wu-fu 五服, are discussed at length on p. 35-38 of Bodde and Morris. The first degree of mourning, chan-ts’ui 斬衰, required a son mourning his father to wear garb of unhemmed sackcloth and mourn for three years. The other degrees of mourning are set forth in the following table.

[Appears I'm not allowed to upload a larger picture - click on it to zoom in]
(Attached File  Degrees of Mourning.jpg   43.34K   5 downloads


The full detail of the degrees of mourning, wu-fu 五服, is found at the front of the book of Ch’ing legal statues, the Ta Ch’ing Hui Tien 大清會典. Note 1. zh.wikipedia.org (the LIC authors do not cite these relations).

The Giles dictionary lists the terms for the five degrees of mourning garb on p. 465:
斬衰 chan ts’ui – for parents or husbands, to be worn 27 months.
齊衰 tzu (ch’i) ts’ui – for grandparents, to be worn 27 months.
大功 ta kung – for brothers, sisters, etc., to be worn 9 months.
小功 hsiao kung – for uncles, aunts, etc., to be worn 5 months.
緦麻 ssu ma – for distant relatives, to be work 3 months.

The Confucian concept called li 理 refers to principles intended to direct proper behavior in society. Five relationships were the basis of proper behavior: father and son, ruler and subject, husband and wife, elder and younger, and friend and friend. Laws derived from Confucian belief recognized these five relationships in the legal code. Rules for mourning, derived from the five relationships, prescribed the manner and length of time for mourning according to degree of relationship.

  • 桃花石化 "peach blossom," and ""petrified" literally - need context again (or someone who just knows the phrase)
  • 乌古斯化
  • 塔特化
  • 葛逻禄化 ...........................Some of these sound like transliterations of foreign names - need context
  • 奥格拉克化
  • 坎切克化
  • 派噶木巴尔
  • 霍集斯族属
  • 霍什克族属

Edited by Meiguo Laowai, 05 July 2012 - 11:40 AM.






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