5 replies to this topic

[hanyu]

If the opium war started on mids 1750 ,ill Qing win in the time of Qinlong.

I think it will, in that time china army was battle hardened and well equipped then the at the time of DaoGuang and the britain tech is not very advance to the Qing then like the time of 19th century

Edited by hanyu, 05 July 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[Guaporense]

Well, in 1840 the Europeans had a massive advantage in military effectiveness. In the order of a 100 fold superiority in military power. While 90 years earlier the difference might be smaller, it also existed, perhaps a 10-20 fold difference, already very large.

It's generally acknowledged that by the 16th century European military power became greater than anywhere else by a large margin and over the next centuries the difference increased. By the 19th century, European countries had reduced the rest of the planet to obedience.

[mohistManiac]

I am new to this concept of 100 fold superiority in military power. Is that meaning like a ratio of a European army can hold against an hostile enemy severely underarmed but 100 times its size or simply the skill of the troops in being able to last against another army in terms of kill ratio regardless of arms.

[MJuingong]

As to the posed question: I am inclined to think that in the area of the seaports, Britain might have won. The development of firearms tactics-small-arms and large artillery-had progressed, and the ability to receive replacements, reinforcements, and resupplies at the ports, because of British seapower, would have given the Brits the edge.

Further inland at that time-I think the Quing would have won. Their armies were well trained, experienced; I think they would have controlled the rivers, and they would have devised strategies to cut off British re-supply and reinforcement.

By the way, from what I have read here and elsewhere, I don't quite buy the notion of European superiority in the 16th century. I think the Japanes armies of the Nobunaga, Toyotomi, and (very early) Tokugawa; and Ming armies up to about 1615, could have given any European army a struggle, and have won.

[TiYiJian]

Until England conquered the entire Indian continent, Europe wasn't any great power, it probably controlled much of the planet's territories but if we look at the world population, Qing China controlled over 1/3 of the world population and the Mughal also had something similar.
English economy surpassed China in the late years of the 19th century. China had an economy superior to the entire european economy. And for the military, Qing China until the 19th century couldn't be invaded succesfully by any power in the world, it had the ability to defend the greatest and richest empire of the world, that means that it was the most powerful one.

[Altaica Militarica]

Judging upon the famous picture of Eight Banner Parade (1747) we cas say that in those years Qing military used the tactic similar of Austrian tactic of 1740th. I.e. it was not the progressive but quite on the level with some European countries.

If we go further we can see that Qing tactic deteriorated after the conquest of Dzhungaria and the lag in warfare became more and more obvious. In the beginning of XIX centruy Qing army could not match with the European ones.

So in any case the last quarter of the XVIII century and onward - it was the time of inevitably defeat of Qing Army in the most clashes anyway.