12 replies to this topic

[Andy Lau]

Hong Kong identity has changed dramatically in the past 20 years, when prior to 1980s Hong Kong identity did not exist and that people view themselves as either Shanghainese, Cantonese, Taishanese (Sze Yap), Hakka, Teochew or Hokkien - the 6 Main Southern Chinese groups in HK.



1st Song in Shanghainese, 2nd in Teochew, 3rd Taishanese, 4th in Hokkien and 5th in Guangzhou Cantonese.

Hong Kong, the most wealthiest city in Greater China has developed a strong financial, judicial and educational system that i beleive Hong Kong should be an independent state just like Singapore.

In addition, as a Southern Chinese, i beleive it's our duty (Cantonese, Teochew, Hokkien, Shanghainese, etc ) to defend our interests. We should not let the Mainland Chinese goverment in the far north in Beijing to influence others.

Edited by Andy Lau, 06 July 2012 - 10:32 AM.

[Andy Lau]

Hu jintao being heckled during the Hong Kong's 15 anniversary of it's return to China.

Edited by Andy Lau, 06 July 2012 - 10:20 AM.

[redstick426]

Great post, Andy. As a Hong Konger living in oversea, I really wish Hong Kong can be Independent entity for the time being, free from PRC, a oppressive nation with no freedom of media, no freedom of speech,no democratic election, no freedom of religion, no check and balance and all kind of political corruption and food contamination on top of that. Tension between Hong Kong and PRC is getting all times high especially now the new chief of Hong Kong is alleged to be underground Communist member and the circle of the administration have many members who have close ties with the Central Communist Party. The administration is trying to enforce Hong Konger to embrace PRC ruling by sugarcoating the communist regime in student textbook in order to brainwash them. It is inevitable for Hong Kong to eventually become a "Chinese" cities like Shenzhen or Guangzhou if no drastic measure is taken.As a believer of Dr Sun Yat Sen's three principles of people ideology, if Hong Kong is to be returned to China, it should be the Republic of China where people can freely elect any official and oust them if they do not do their job right. However ROC is suppressed by PRC in any global event,opting for an Independent Hong Kong, although it might be a pipe dream, is the only option for us to free from PRC laying its hand into Hong Kong affair until ROC flag and Dr Sun Yat Sen portrait(not the one showcased by the communist during the May day) is proudly flying in the Tiananmen Square again.

[zangheinin]

KMT is the best, because they made shanghai the star city XD

[cantonia's dim sum fak choy]

Hong Kong, all I see is British and dim sum.

[Danny.T]

"Hong Kong identity has changed dramatically in the past 20 years, when prior to 1980s Hong Kong identity did not exist and that people view themselves as either Shanghainese, Cantonese, Taishanese (Sze Yap), Hakka, Teochew or Hokkien - the 6 Main Southern Chinese groups in HK."

I don't think this statement is true except those Shanghaiese , Cantonese, Taishanese etc. were not born in Hong Kong but immigrants to Hong Kong only. Even those immigrants if they stayed in Hong Kong long enough say 10 to 20 years, most of them would consider themselves to be Hong Kong people. , All of their offsprings here would naturally think they are Hong Kong people and probably cannot speak their native dialects anymore except Cantonese with HK accent.

There is a always a Hong Kong identity but I would say less than 5% people here want to be independent from China
I feel something wrong or queer when some people hoist that British colonial HK Flag during the recent public rallies. These people don't study history I presume as Hong Kong was a piece of land grabbed from China under Gun Boat Policy by the British.
Now these people implies British was right at grabbing a piece of land from China by force like a robber and they are supposed to be the descendents of the Chinese victims.

To recognise yourself to be Chinese not necessarily you have to agree with the PRC or consider yourself the same kind as the mainlanders.

To advocate Hong Kong to be independent is impractical. Presently Hong Kong economy only flourishes on a few trades like finance, tourism , property, global logistics and you only find good portion of these trades also depend on China.Not to speak of the staple foods, water also depend on China. The movement to Hong Kong independence only bring civil unrest in Hong Kong nothing more. These movements I suspect are motivated by overseas orchestration to keep China annoyed or agitated politically.

Edited by Danny.T, 16 September 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[Danny.T]

Those Hongkongers holding British Colonial flags should feel ashamed themselves. Don't they know the meaning and practice of colonial rule ?

Yes, the British rule was orderly with foresight planning and responsibility but for most part of the history she ruled Hong Kong it was also a rule with racial discrimination.

Many Honghongers these days don't know history of any kind. In contrast the South Koreans visited their unorthodox (possibly biased ) history websites 5 to 6 million times a year among a population of 40 millions.

I hope young peoplein H.K. put more time on Chinese History even if they don't like the nationalistic education.
You know the past who you are then you know the present where you stand and which best direction you should choose to take
Otherwise you are totally lost.

Edited by Danny.T, 16 September 2012 - 08:54 PM.

[Danny.T]

Those Hongkongers holding British Colonial flags should feel ashamed themselves. Don't they know the meaning and practice of colonial rule ?

Yes, the British rule was orderly with foresight planning and responsibility but for most part of the history she ruled Hong Kong it was also a rule with racial discrimination.

Many Honghongers these days don't know history of any kind. In contrast the South Koreans visited their unorthodox (possibly biased ) history websites 5 to 6 million times a year among a population of 40 millions.

I hope young people in H.K. put more time on Chinese History even if they don't like the nationalistic education.
You know the past who you are then you know the present where you stand and which directions you should choose to take.
Otherwise you are totally lost.

Sorry , wrongly edited with this passage to post up again.

Edited by Danny.T, 16 September 2012 - 09:04 PM.

[Andy Lau]

i think Hong Kong people do know they are ethnic Han, but they see themsleves as different like Taiwan does, because they have a unique political, educational and judicial systems that are different from Mainland China. The mentality is also different as they are more "westernized" and have better morals and manners than Mainlanders do.

I personally believe in democracy, therefore if Hong Kongers and Taiwanese believe they should be indepedent or not, let it be. Let the people decide, as they are educated and well informed individuals. I personally believe they should be independent, inorder to prevent the CCP brainwashing. They can create a Greater China Region, but made up of 3 different Countries: Mainland China, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Like Great Britain is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Hokkien needs to be preserved in Taiwan, it is the only region in Asia that still preserves Hokkien... the oldest chinese dialect (including Wu).

Hokkien is a really beautiful language that is good for singing and politics LOL I love Chen Shui Bian's Taiwanese Hokkien! Hokkien sounds really powerful, which is perfect for politics. Singapore and Taiwan politicians still use Hokkien, which is good.

My favorite Hokkien Taiwanese Song

Edited by Andy Lau, 29 September 2012 - 03:52 AM.

[mohistManiac]

i think Hong Kong people do know they are ethnic Han, but they see themsleves as different like Taiwan does, because they have a unique political, educational and judicial systems that are different from Mainland China. The mentality is also different as they are more "westernized" and have better morals and manners than Mainlanders do.

I personally believe in democracy, therefore if Hong Kongers and Taiwanese believe they should be indepedent or not, let it be. Let the people decide, as they are educated and well informed individuals. I personally believe they should be independent, inorder to prevent the CCP brainwashing. They can create a Greater China Region, but made up of 3 different Countries: Mainland China, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Like Great Britain is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Hokkien needs to be preserved in Taiwan, it is the only region in Asia that still preserves Hokkien... the oldest chinese dialect (including Wu).

Hokkien is a really beautiful language that is good for singing and politics LOL I love Chen Shui Bian's Taiwanese Hokkien! Hokkien sounds really powerful, which is perfect for politics. Singapore and Taiwan politicians still use Hokkien, which is good.

My favorite Hokkien Taiwanese Song

But Hong Kong and Taiwan are rather a portion of their greater general area because for Hong Kong it's the province of Guangdong and Taiwan it's the province of Fujian. This is just a preliminary area in which to explore the similarities between the embedded social practices and views held by a people who may categorize themselves into a group. There in those places you can also get a diversified view on things but I suspect there could be a more mainstream view to how things are in reality. People of Guangdong might really view themselves as people of Guangdong before the emphasis is placed on being ethnic Han since the origins of history allows them to realize the separation from the historical northern "elite". The alteration in these uniquely indigenous social views with the arrival of colonial British would only serve to amplify the differentiation for Hong Kong itself but the indigenous roots in culture may have always been there since the Han dynasty. The same theory would work for Taiwan since it got a slight dose of Japanese but Taiwanese don't see themselves as solely Japanese because that would be denying all the previous transmissions from China via Fujian province.

[Andy Lau]

There isn't any identity crisis in my ancestral province, because Guangdong has always viewed themselves as a Mainland Chinese, while Hong Kongers, since the late 20th century view themselves as Hong Kongers. The reason is because both have different political, educational and judicial systems

It is only in the North and Central China, where there is a identity crisis between the North vs. South Chinese, in particularily in Jiangsu province (Jiangnan vs. Jiangbei) and also between Shanghainese vs. Dongbei. One stereotype that is common in Shanghai about Dongbei (Northeast Chinese) People are: "Dongbei people are easily manipulated .. " (intelligence related).

Cantonese usually don't really care about the North vs. South issue, because we are more materialistic like the british, even though we speak "a much older form of Chinese" and are the direct descendants of those who participated in the great migration from the central plains into the south. As a result, Hong Kongers know how to enjoy life and thus she has the most Billionaires in Asia, Top Universities in Asia and the Best Chinese Cuisine.

In terms of materialistic, i would summarize the groups into the following:

1) Northern Chinese & North Koreans = French (Emphasis on Culture & Politics)

2) Southern Chinese & South Koreans = British & Germans (Emphasis on Business, Education and Wellbeing)

Edited by Andy Lau, 29 September 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[mohistManiac]

There isn't any identity crisis in my ancestral province, because Guangdong has always viewed themselves as a Mainland Chinese, while Hong Kongers, since the late 20th century view themselves as Hong Kongers. The reason is because both have different political, educational and judicial systems

It is only in the North and Central China, where there is a identity crisis between the North vs. South Chinese, in particularily in Jiangsu province (Jiangnan vs. Jiangbei) and also between Shanghainese vs. Dongbei. One stereotype that is common in Shanghai about Dongbei (Northeast Chinese) People are: "Dongbei people are easily manipulated .. " (intelligence related).

Cantonese usually don't really care about the North vs. South issue, because we are more materialistic like the british, even though we speak "a much older form of Chinese" and are the direct descendants of those who participated in the great migration from the central plains into the south. As a result, Hong Kongers know how to enjoy life and thus she has the most Billionaires in Asia, Top Universities in Asia and the Best Chinese Cuisine.

In terms of materialistic, i would summarize the groups into the following:

1) Northern Chinese & North Koreans = French (Emphasis on Culture & Politics)

2) Southern Chinese & South Koreans = British & Germans (Emphasis on Business, Education and Wellbeing)

We see eye to eye that the northerners are more politically oriented in terms of their culture. It's a historical byproduct of the formations of the northern dynasties. Even if the southeners are one hundred percent biologically the same as northerners they will still retain the mentality that they were separate in some way and will go great lengths to show that the roots of their culture are not necessarily solely Han even if they are more traditional subsets of Han. Han needs a very in depth diachronic analysis between the different regions. Who was older generation, the degree of interaction with the other provinces, the role they played in economy are all important factors affecting change of culture. Based on very general models set forth for analyzing early civilizations a closer analogy might be between the lower regions of the west to compare with China. Egypt and the Mesopotamian region were the Yangtze Chinese cultures like Daxi and Liangzhu. Only later on did the Cretans and Ageans further north become familiarized to the civilizations that had already been set in the south. They became very strong during the Macedonian expansion period and superceded their ancient predecessors. Hence the Mediterranean could be analogous to the situation in northern China with the Spring and Autumn and Warring states period. We mustn't look at Xia Shang Zhou as a distinctly bound unit that was entirely sufficient to itself but rather an integral whole to the south but was yet different nonetheless.

[Hou Yi]

In SEA such as Singapore and Malaysia, the Cantonese, Hokkien, Hakka, Minnan,Min Dong and others all view themselves as ethnic Han Chinese but politically different from Han Chinese from China. We don't have identity crisis about the northern Han vs southern Han. Just curious, does Taiwanese view themselves as ethnic Han?

Edited by Hou Yi, 01 October 2012 - 05:31 AM.