23 replies to this topic

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

Distributing information in the form of lists and bibliographies is one thing. Stealing someone's work is another.

Ah, you presume too much, sir. You can still download the old-school Brewitt-Taylor novel by going to Novel and History section of Kongming’s Archives, and clicking ‘Novel Download (zip)’ on the right-hand menu under ‘Literature and Language’. It is hosted with permission, and in fact, it is hosted for threekingdoms.com by kongming.net as well (their link downloads from kongming.net) as a courtesy.

Edited by Xian Zhu Xuande, 31 October 2005 - 01:38 PM.

[DuncanHead]

Now, to my question. Is the Sanguozhi currently translated into a book/document form in the English language, or does Kongming.net have all that has been translated? From what I can tell, Sanguozhi was written down by a scholar, so I assume it is documented somewhere...

In the absence of a complete translation of Sanguozhi, you might like to try and get hold of The Chronicle of the Three Kingdoms (220-265): Chapters 69-78 from the Tzu chih t’ung chien of Ssu-ma Kuang, by the splendidly-named Achilles Fang (Harvard University Press, 1965). This translates the Three Kingdoms-related chapters of the Zizhi Tongjian, and one of the main sources for that was the Sanguozhi. Long out of print, of course, but you may have luck with libraries: I got a copy through the UK public library system, some years ago.

[mirageglobe]

You should visit Yi Zhong Tians Review of san guo records. i find it very complete and concise.

not sure if i can post links but heres the 52 episodes of the review of 3 Kingdoms. very fascinating and good review. Cao Cao seems to be not so villianious after all.

http://www.tudou.com...list/id/896406/


cheers
MG
mirageglobe.com

[l0ckx]

i see this thread was started back in '05. Are we still at the same place with no complete English translation of the San Guo Zhi ?

Edited by l0ckx, 17 February 2008 - 09:51 AM.

[Ma Su]

I'm afraid there is still no full translation

[Jimayo]

An English translation of the Sanguo Zhi has yet to be published, and this is of course a big reason for the misconceptions on the Three Kingdoms that continue to exist among the public. A guy named Su Mingde has tried translating the SGZ here: http://www.3kingdoms...os/sgzintro.htm

But so far it seems that he has only finished the biographies of Pang Tong, Xu Shu and Ma Liang: http://www.3kingdoms.../shusgzbios.htm

While I would much prefer that a translation by a qualified historian were available, that will probably have to wait until someone like Rafe de Crespigny appears in a younger generation.

Chen Shou was a minister of the Western Jin under Sima Yan. His Sanguo Zhi is one of the 24 or 25 official dynastic histories of China, which apart from parts of the Shiji by Sima Qian have never been translated into English. They have only recently been translated from archaic Classical Chinese into the vernacular language!

Ah, my man steve. He's actually translated more, they just started to collect them in a thread on the forum along with translations by other prominent members.

[Guan Yan]

No unfortuantly there is no full translation but there is biography translations at www.the-scholars.com, and www.3kingdoms.net as well as Historians of Heaven's Mandate-www.3kingdomsrtk.myfreeforum.org

There is also Zizhi Tongjian with events of the period and other information. The Historians of Heaven's Mandate has some biographies containing Zizhi Tongjian and Sanguozhi.

[Tarrot]

Just to put this out there: There will never be a professor doing a full english translation of the SGZ, and any efforts will have to be either private or individual. The reason, quite simply, is there is no reason. Outside a group of amateur scholars (not meant to be insulting in any way), if you're going to seriously study the history, you need to be able to read the traditional chinese, plus a couple other languages. If you're looking for something similar, I know Rafe like last January released a biographical dictionary of all men who existed from 23 - 220 AD, and includes a lot of information on men of the era (which when compared with some SGZ translations seem to be direct translations, although his personal opinions plus other sources are used), but any translation of the SGZ in English, simply because there isn't a reason to do so professionally, will have to be an independent work.

[Lu Su]

Just to put this out there: There will never be a professor doing a full english translation of the SGZ, and any efforts will have to be either private or individual. The reason, quite simply, is there is no reason. Outside a group of amateur scholars (not meant to be insulting in any way), if you're going to seriously study the history, you need to be able to read the traditional chinese, plus a couple other languages. If you're looking for something similar, I know Rafe like last January released a biographical dictionary of all men who existed from 23 - 220 AD, and includes a lot of information on men of the era (which when compared with some SGZ translations seem to be direct translations, although his personal opinions plus other sources are used), but any translation of the SGZ in English, simply because there isn't a reason to do so professionally, will have to be an independent work.

You make a very valid point, however many people are devoutly devoted in other studies as well, and so learning chinese fully may not be a realistic option. Still, the interest in the truth may indeed be very genuine, and that is certainly something worth considering.

I am willing to bet if a private translation, as perfectly equivalent to the Chinese as it can be given the variables, was made in full, no doubt the author would push for publishing. It would bring more of the history to a wider crowd, and help to dissolve misunderstandings. Copies would very likely sell well.

I believe that this too, is another method in honoring the Chinese culture and heritage. Naturally though, that would take quite alot of time on someones behalf, so it would be a long devotion to complete them all, and would likely have to be a funded project in order to make any steady progress at a substantial level.