13 replies to this topic

[Mok]

i bought the Bai Jia Xing just a week ago and it has been both a joy and a wonder to read...i'm like a kid with a new toy

in addition to just the listings of the surnames they give a history of it too.

so, this is the history of my surname Yim (Yan in Mandarin and meaning stern, severe)

it was actually Zhuang, which was the posthumous name of King XuanXu of Chu state during the Warring States Era. later on during the Han dynasty (i think!) to avoid confusion with another emperor with the name Zhuang they changed it to Yan, so Zhuangs and Yans are the same family.

that also means Yans are descendants of King XuanXu. Cool isn't it?

btw if the facts are wrong pls correct me.

[Yun]

That's the 严 surname, isn't it? Yes, the second emperor of the Eastern Han, Mingdi 明帝, was named Liu Zhuang 刘庄. It was not to avoid confusion that the Zhuang had to change their surname - it was to avoid the very serious offence of breaking the taboo against using the emperor's name (or the name of a previous emperor in the reigning dynasty). The choice of 'Yan' reflects the convention of using a synonym to replace a taboo word: 庄 and 严 both mean solemn, and together make the phrase 庄严 (austere, solemn).

However, there are still people with the surname of Zhuang today, so it probably means that part of the clan reverted to its old surname after the Eastern Han.

[Yun]

If it means cold or cool, it's either Liang 梁 (which sounds like 凉, meaning 'cool') or Leng 冷, which is a rarer surname.

[Mok]

That's the 严 surname, isn't it? Yes, the second emperor of the Eastern Han, Mingdi 明帝, was named Liu Zhuang 刘庄. It was not to avoid confusion that the Zhuang had to change their surname - it was to avoid the very serious offence of breaking the taboo against using the emperor's name (or the name of a previous emperor in the reigning dynasty). The choice of 'Yan' reflects the convention of using a synonym to replace a taboo word: 庄 and 严 both mean solemn, and together make the phrase 庄严 (austere, solemn).

However, there are still people with the surname of Zhuang today, so it probably means that part of the clan reverted to its old surname after the Eastern Han.

thanks for the correction, Yun.

and Sawa, I don't believe we share the same character for a surname because you're right, dialect romanisations are tricky! In Hokkien I know that Yan is Ngiam or something to that effect.

In Cantonese it is Yim. It is a rather uncommon surname and there are only two pages worth of Yims listed down in our Singapore Residential Yellow Pages.

Kinda like having such an uncommon surname though...

[AhMan]

the saying: 500 years before we are of the same family is an ancient saying or a famous say by someone?

[John]

I also thought my surname was Yan in Mandarin but not sure though, it could be Yon, in teochew its called something like Ngung - according to my family meaning cold or cool... Hmm could it just be a different word with the same sound?? Somebody help me pls!!

If its the same surname, hello distant distant distant relative...

as i know, in some southern dialect, include south branches of northern dialect(mandarin) for example, Sichuan dialect pronounce 严 like 年(nian)

[alyem]

A history of Chinese surname Yan


During Spring and Autumn period, a monarch called Xiong Lv in the State of Chu in today's central China's Hubei Province was awarded with the title of King Zhuang of the Chu posthumously, and from then on, his descendants began to surname themselves Zhuang.

In Eastern Han Dynasty, Emperor Ming had a given name Zhuang. So he ordered the ordinary Zhuang-surnamed people to change their surnames to Yan in order to avoid the taboo of his personal name. This move contributes another part of surname Zhuang.

Some people with surname Yan shifted back to surname Zhuang during Northern and Southern Dynasties. Thus Yan and Zhuang came from the same family tree.

According to historical records, Yan people originated from Tianshui in today's Gansu province, Fengyi and Huayin in Shannxi province, northwest China. Later they moved southward, bringing surname Yan to the south.

[alyem]

Chinese Zhuang surname history


According to the Manuscript of the Words and Deeds of Virtuous Clans , people with surname Zhuang are descendants of king Zhuang of the State of Chu in Spring and Autumn period. The descendants adopted the posthumous title of king Zhuang as their surname. Another group of people with the surname Zhuang came from State of Song. King Dai of Song was named Zhuang, and his offspring later took Zhuang as their family name.

From the Warring States period to Qin and Han Dynasties, surname Zhuang experienced two big changes. First, Zhuang Qiao, descendant of king Zhuang of Chu, went to attack Bashu State under orders, but he was blocked by Qin troops on his way home. He had no alternative but to proclaim himself king in Dian. Second, Emperor Ming of Eastern Han Dynasty was named Zhuang, therefore many people with surname Zhuang changed their surnames so as to avoid the taboo on the personal name of Emperor Ming. In the period of Sixteen States, surname Zhuang spread from Hubei and Hunan to other regions in the country, such as Guansu, Zhejiang, Fujian as well as Shandong.

There is no lack of celebrities in Zhuang family circle: for instance, Zhuang Jia, a senior official with State of Qi in Spring and Autumn period; Zhuang Qiao, who proclaimed himself king in Dian in the Warring States period; Zhuang Ji, an expert on "poetic prose" in Western Han Dynasty; Zhuang Chuo, a well-known writer in Song Dynasty; Zhuang Su, who was famous for his rich collections of books in Song and Yuan Dynasties; calligrapher Zhuang Yougong; Zhuang Cunyu and Zhuang Youke, experts on the study of Confucian classics; Zhuang Datian, leader of peasant uprising; as well as Zhuang Tinglong, who led to the incident of "Ming History Inquisition" -- imprisonment of him for compiling History of Ming Dynasty considered offensive by the imperial court in Qing Dynasty; and chemist Zhuang Changgong in contemporary times.

[alyem]

My parent born in China married in Malaysia, and I am the 2nd generation here.
Over the years.... my parent never fail to tell us our Yem History... the same as what I found out in the net.

In a way... we can tell others that we have 2 surname 1st was Zhuang 2nd was Yan. But in paper.. it is only 1.

My father came to Malaysia when he was 16 years old but in 1920's, he left his only brother (my uncle) and his Mother (My grandmother) back in China to look for fortune in Malaysia.. (he should have made friend with Uncle Lim Goh Thong) heheheh

Becos he came from the Village of Hakka.. he can only speak Hakka at that time. Origin Dialect was "Pan Kong Jim" (Half hakka half mandarin)
So he register his surname pronoun it in Hakka.

1920 - 1930 as Ngiem
1930 - 1957 as Ngiam
1957 - now as Yem
All the above depend registry who pronuoun it recorded down.

So Zhuang - can be - Zhuang, Chong, Choong ans so on son depend on the Dialect.
So Yan - Can be - Yan, Yam, Yim, Yem, Ngiam, Ngiem so on so on..

But in chinese are the same.

[alyem]

So how many "Yan" 严 or 嚴 or "Zhuang" family do we have in this forum?

1- alyem
2- Mok
3- Sawa
4 - ?
5 - ?

[Mok]

I don't think there are any others. Our surname is quite uncommon.

Btw if you want a "Chinese seal" avatar of our surname, I can give you some. Or you could ask Liang Jieming to make you a digital seal with your Chinese name.

http://www.chinahist...showtopic=12960

[YimC]

Hi All,

i am new here. Nice Forum for us in search of our roots.

Have anyone ever heard from their grandparents the story of the origin of the Yim Clan in this way.

My grandfather tells me that his ancestor had 10 pairs of twins and 9 boys for a total of 29 male with 1 adopted son.
For some reason the sons got into an argument with a neighbor who was a nobleman who was under the King. They killed the nobleman and were brought to court to be behead. Our ancestor the asked that the King grant him a few wishes. 1. Allow the oldest to live to keep the family name. 2. Allow the youngest to live to care for him and 3. allow the adopted son to live because he was adopted. Upon hearing this the King decided not to behead the sons but split the family into 3 family name. The original Yim was kept and 2 additional which I am unbale to translate due to my limited grasp of the teochew dialect.