8 replies to this topic

[AhMan]

In Shanghai dialect:
country bumpkin gang1 buot2 ning = jiang bei ren ("north of the river" people - people to look down on)

[nishishei]

In Shanghai dialect:
country bumpkin  gang1 buot2 ning = jiang bei ren ("north of the river" people - people to look down on)

江北人 Káunpoknin (north of river people) applies to northerners (usually those along the Huai area), and is somewhat derogatory. When a person acts or looks stupid, his friends, siblings or parents might call him a 江北人, even when he is certainly not. It is almost equivalent to 猪头三, baffoon, dork, dumb***, although there is also a "hick" element to it. If you got a bad hair cut, you would complain that you look like a 江北人 now, etc. The irony is that the Shanghainese have a lot of Jianghuai ancestry, and they know it, nevertheless the last thing you want to be is a 江北人. This stems from a historic cultural divide of China along the Yangtze River, and the Suzhou-Shanghai-Hangzhou region is immediately on the southern banks of the river and serves as the historic epicenter of Southern China, so the sentiment is especially strong. Of course today, Cantonese people even think Shanghainese are northerners to our bewilderment.

Non-derogatory terms are 北方人 Poffaunnin, 江淮人 Káunweinin (for those in the Jianghuai area).

The generic term for peasant/country bumpkin is still 乡下人 Shánwonin. This word is especially caustic in Shanghainese, mainly because it is usually not used, but whenever you use it, it comes out really cold and spiteful. The term Outsiders 外地人 Gnadinin is more neutral, although non-Shanghainese also might take offense, because the word doesn't sound very pleasant pronounced in Shanghainese either.

[AhMan]

do you know why shisandian means shenjingbing? modern use. I heard it in a movie.

[nishishei]

do you know why shisandian means shenjingbing? modern use. I heard it in a movie.

十三点 = zeseiti. The term has been around for a hundred years now.

Because there is no 13:00 in a day (back when a full Chinese day was only 12 hours long). So the word actually originally coded for "queer" or "quaint." The term was further reinforced when a clothing store made polka dotted dresses during the early 1900's with its trademark of 13 dots. Girls who wore the dress tended to be more rebellious.

Even today, this term is rarely if ever used on guys (unless perceived as effeminate). It's usually used to describe a girl's mood swings, so there is some "psycho" connotations, but it is not equivalent to shenjingbing (which carries a more definite meaning of being psychotic and is gender neutral).

The adjective is 十三 zesei, as in: 伊牢十三个。yi lau zesei e. (she's crazy).

[AhMan]

correct. This was used on a effeminate guy in the movie.

[bloodmerchant]

江北人 Káunpoknin (north of river people) applies to northerners (usually those along the Huai area), and is somewhat derogatory. When a person acts or looks stupid, his friends, siblings or parents might call him a 江北人, even when he is certainly not. It is almost equivalent to 猪头三, baffoon, dork, dumb***, although there is also a "hick" element to it. If you got a bad hair cut, you would complain that you look like a 江北人 now, etc. The irony is that the Shanghainese have a lot of Jianghuai ancestry, and they know it, nevertheless the last thing you want to be is a 江北人. This stems from a historic cultural divide of China along the Yangtze River, and the Suzhou-Shanghai-Hangzhou region is immediately on the southern banks of the river and serves as the historic epicenter of Southern China, so the sentiment is especially strong. Of course today, Cantonese people even think Shanghainese are northerners to our bewilderment.

Non-derogatory terms are 北方人 Poffaunnin, 江淮人 Káunweinin (for those in the Jianghuai area).

The generic term for peasant/country bumpkin is still 乡下人 Shánwonin. This word is especially caustic in Shanghainese, mainly because it is usually not used, but whenever you use it, it comes out really cold and spiteful. The term Outsiders 外地人 Gnadinin is more neutral, although non-Shanghainese also might take offense, because the word doesn't sound very pleasant pronounced in Shanghainese either.

Oh yeah my parents used to use that curse word. If you are Shanghainese or some other 'Jiangnanese' Han Chinese, the last thing you want to be called is 江北人(kaon poh nyin). I know this '江北人'-hate is shared amongst other Jiangnanese. Honestly, I'm not offended by the term, since from what I know, I have no traceable recent Jianghuai/Jiangbei ancestry. (All my ancestors on both sides of my family are from 江南) They also used the term 江北 as another way of saying 戇 (kaon) or stupid (like an adjective) but with much more derogatory meaning. At least 戇 is a much less derogatory. My mother especially used the term 江北人 with such vitriol and anger, as in 'you imbecilic, fish-brained, idiotic m****!'
鄉下人 is more of a neutral term than 江北人, but it is quite spiteful. But, it's more often used to call non-native Shanghainese who came recently from other parts of Jiangnan.

十三点 = zeseiti. The term has been around for a hundred years now.

Because there is no 13:00 in a day (back when a full Chinese day was only 12 hours long). So the word actually originally coded for "queer" or "quaint." The term was further reinforced when a clothing store made polka dotted dresses during the early 1900's with its trademark of 13 dots. Girls who wore the dress tended to be more rebellious.

Even today, this term is rarely if ever used on guys (unless perceived as effeminate). It's usually used to describe a girl's mood swings, so there is some "psycho" connotations, but it is not equivalent to shenjingbing (which carries a more definite meaning of being psychotic and is gender neutral).

The adjective is 十三 zesei, as in: 伊牢十三个。yi lau zesei e. (she's crazy).

Interesting. I had no idea that 十三點 (zeh se di) had such origins. I thought it's just another way of saying 'crazy'.

Edited by bloodmerchant, 08 March 2010 - 01:01 AM.

[Honam]

Isn't this call 外江人 ngoi gong jan in Cantonese? Is it also derogatory?

[bloodmerchant]

Isn't this call 外江人 ngoi gong jan in Cantonese? Is it also derogatory?

Is this word often used in the Pearl River delta to refer to people not from the Pearl River/don't speak Guangzhou (Yuehai) Cantonese?

[Honam]

Is this word often used in the Pearl River delta to refer to people not from the Pearl River/don't speak Guangzhou (Yuehai) Cantonese?

It's supposed to be a term for Northern Chinese.