54 replies to this topic

[Alexander39]

Not really, Turks can range from pure Northern Mongoloids to Caucasians and Finnic types.. however in the context of Xinjiang, it is likely that the original Uighurs were Mongoloid (probably the same stock as the Mongols) and intermixed with the Indo-European inhabitants of Xinjiang, which resulted in the Uighurs of today.

The physical change between different Turkic groups is actually rather gradual, with the farthest Eastern group, the Yakuts, being the "most Mongoloid" and the farthest western group , the Karaims, Gaugauz, Turkish, and Crimean Tatars, being the most Caucasoid.  every Turkic ethnic group has physical appearances that are somewhere in between.  The two noticable mixes are the Bashkorts (Bashkirs) and Turkmen

True i didn't think it throu, since i just consentratet on the Turks in Turkey today, so thanks anyway

[TMPikachu]

you describe turks as mostly Caucasian with an infusion of Asian...

Oddly, I always though tof them as Asians who integrated into a Caucasian group. Pretty much what you said, exept yours is more
'the turks, then more asians came' mine is more
'the asians came and made the turks'

no basis or research, just an idea in my head. I guess I'm used to steppe people being Asian.

[ren]

I've had to fend off claims of Caucasians originally in Siberia, Mongolia, and China being overrun and absorbed by "Mongoloids" from SE Asia at Dodona because of the latest bursts in the news about Tocharians. Every year, there is a few articles about Tocharians, when it's old news. Plus, they lived right next to Afghanistan.

How is that "ancient China"?

[Kenneth]

I recall a documentary on these mummies, and of the carbon datings it named a male figure as having the oldest result, and I recall it fell within Shang, the latest being around east Zhou. They commented on this man being there near the time of the siege of Troy.
It mentioned the 'beauty' too but dont recall a date if they gave. Now I check a text at home it says the beauty is 3,800 years old (although doesnt explain the dating). It says some of them are up to 4,000 years old. Perhaps they didnt carbon date her, but some sources say 4,000 years for the oldest mummies.
http://www.meshrep.c...ies/mummies.htm
You are quite right Daniel. Now I look at this website (with lots of good pics of the mummies) I see the one C14 dated in the documentary was 'Cherchen man' and they say '900 years before the 2 century BC', which is more like late Shang/early West Zhou. If I get to see the documentary again I will take note of the figure they gave from the test, but when was Troy?
The beauty they put at 4,000 years ago, and say she was buried there at the time of Abraham and the patriachs of the Old Testament! Wow.


Back to the political angle.
Funny thing is that there are websites (actually quite few) on the Xia and early Shang as black! It seems everyone wants credit for Chinese civilisation. Try a google search for ''negroid, black, Xia, Shang'',etc.

This one takes the prize though;http://www.dailygrail.com/node/1198

''''Briefly, the man with long red hair, wearing a plaid skirt (no, not a joke) was found frozen in Northern China. He was over 7 foot tall and had a metal chip in his skull that scientists cannot identify ie the metal is not known to us. He was dubbed the first "human cyborg" and if memory serves me well he was over 40 000 years old.'''''

[Juchechosunmanse]

The question is: So what? So what the Caucasians were the earliest settlers in the Tarim Basin? We call came from Africa, should we go to Congo to claim something too? The Jews roamed what's now known as Palestine, but I don't think what they did was right-kicking the Arabs out and reclaiming the land of Israel.

Release it and let the Uighurs fume all they want.

[kaixin]

There are some Uygurs who look very Han. More so in the east parts of Xinjiang.

When General Ban Chao of Han Dynasty entered this region in 100ADs, the Chinese were viewed as liberators against the Huns. Obviously, this is when the race mixing began in larger numbers.

[ren]

There are some Uygurs who look very Han.  More so in the east parts of Xinjiang.

When General Ban Chao of Han Dynasty entered this region in 100ADs, the Chinese were viewed as liberators against the Huns.  Obviously, this is when the race mixing began in larger numbers.

The Huns were "Mongoloid" too, most likely, so it started before this. I can't remember the specific study's numbers but I think mtDNA of the East started showing up in Central Asia before B.C.

[kermit_criminal]

funny how the racist white supremecists call it the aryan invasion when trying to explain whites in northern india, with the darker people having nothing to do with the developement of the culture. but when we are trying to explain dead whites in china, it is not an invasion but the absorbtion and infusion of asians into white-created culture & society.

Edited by kermit_criminal, 20 June 2005 - 08:50 PM.

[DaMo]

funny how the racist white supremecists call it the aryan invasion when trying to explain whites in northern india, with the darker people having nothing to do with the developement of the culture. but when we are trying to explain dead whites in china, it is not an invasion but the absorbtion and infusion of asians into white-created culture & society.

Actually, some white supremacists call them "invaders" too.

Edited by DaMo, 21 June 2005 - 03:17 AM.

[kermit_criminal]

Actually, some white supremacists call them "invaders" too.

oh point taken

honestly i am not in the least threatened when people put out the idea that caucasians were in asia first, i actually believe that explains the northern han and the japanese. however i see it as mongoloids giving civilization to the barbarians, not the other way around. If not for modern industrialization, the mongoloid invasion would have continued westward as can be seen by modern russian kalmyk and kazakh populations.

Edited by kermit_criminal, 26 June 2005 - 04:05 PM.

[Kenneth]

I think it requires divorcing a modern spin by a very small group I was previously unaware of & the factual evidence and remarkable story of these people.
Nobody has to be a winner or a loser because these people existed...it doesnt have to be that way at all.
There is no 'idea' that whites reached Asia first that I know of, but according to this post one tiny group of red-necks might say they bought civilisation.
Asian races seem to have originated in Asia, and so does (in general) Asain civilisation.
We can rule out the supremacist ideas easily, but it doesnt mean that these ancient people should be dismissed as any less fascinating.
They are still an enigma.

Edited by Kenneth, 26 June 2005 - 10:03 PM.

[DaMo]

First of all, is there even any evidence that they were "first in Asia"? All that is known is that they were the first known occupants of the Tarim Basin.

By the way, has anyone heard of "Voyages of the Pyramid Builders"? One Freeper I know of keeps citing this book as proof that a blonde caucasian race native to Indonesia(?!!) spread out all over the world building pyramids and civilizations.

[kaixin]

If they actually cared to research the artifacts found buried among these Caucasoid mummies in Xinjiang, you know that they were not a highly sophisticated culture in the material sense. They were just like the ancient Slavs and Celts.

[Gubook Janggoon]

If they actually cared to research the artifacts found buried among these Caucasoid mummies in Xinjiang, you know that they were not a highly sophisticated culture in the material sense.  They were just like the ancient Slavs and Celts.

Hey man the Celts were pretty **** sophisticated.

[Sephodwyrm]

Well, I would not disagree with the presence of Caucasians in West China. In fact, the Jie were probably Caucasoids: paler complexion, big nose, some had blond hair and blue eyes.

In any case, the Jie were slaughtered to near extinction in the 5 Barbarians Era. The rest probably just assimilated with the Chinese.

And even then, Genghis's chief wife Borte was known for her golden locks. There were definitely a few Caucasians here and there in China throughout history.