50 replies to this topic

[BlueDragonMagik]

We know that Jiang Wei is described by Zhuge Liang as "a true genius".

I got this note from a three kingdom web site. ...

" ... Jiang Wei was Zhuge Liang's successor and student.  He was originally from Jicheng of Tianshui County and a servant of Wei, Jiang Wei was recruited by Zhuge Liang after countering one of his strategies. After Zhuge Liang died, Jiang Wei persevered to finish his mentor's task, but failed, mainly due to his rival Deng Ai. He committed suicide at 59 in shame of his failure, after suffering heart spasms. He was later hacked into pieces by vengeful Wei troops.

Jiang Wei was described as a very filial son, "seeming to have read everything, and was also skilled in all warlike exercises". He admired Zhuge Liang very much, and was entrusted with his mentor's treasured strategy books. Of Jiang Wei was said "civil skill and military prowess, wisdom and courage, he has all.  ... "

What if Jiang Wei never left the Wei state and continue his loyality to Cao Cao. ... What would have happen? ... Do any one of you wanna to take a shot at it? ...

[ggnore]

I doubt he would have had any significant influence. Jiang Wei was only a minor officer when he left Wei, and Wei had a heapload of talents to choose from. Plus Jiang Wei isn't that great to begin with.

[sima old bandit]

He left his mother behind in Wei did he not unlike in the novel? If so how can he be said to be filial?

In Wei he was a small fish in a big pond, in Shu it was the reverse and his career was put on the fast track. Even if he was discovered to be talented in Wei he would never achieve such power.

I think that appraisal of him is rather biased and probably based off the novel?

[CARDINAL009]

He left his mother behind in Wei did he not unlike in the novel? If so how can he be said to be filial?

In Wei he was a small fish in a big pond, in Shu it was the reverse and his career was put on the fast track.  Even if he was discovered to be talented in Wei he would never achieve such power.

I think that appraisal of him is rather biased and probably based off the novel?

Jiang Wei made the right career move to ensure a chance to run his own operation.

In life, not many ppl gets a chance @ creating history.

[lobster]

According to the novel, Zhuge Liang already moved Jiang Wei's mother to Shu at the same time when Jiang Wei was captured. I'll need to check SGZ to see if this is really true.

[Yun]

It wasn't true. The SGZ says that Jiang Wei was separated from his mother after he went over to the Shu-Han. An annotation from another contemporary source states that the Wei later spared his mother and family because he hadn't intended to defect. Another annotation says that Jiang's mother wrote to him asking him to send her the medicinal herb danggui 当归 (a word play on the phrase "you should return"). Jiang Wei replied in a letter, "One mou of land matters little in a plot of 100 qing [1 qing = 100 mou], and danggui means nothing to my yuanzhi 远志('great ambitions', another word play on a herb name)." So he was no filial son.

But yes, Jiang Wei did not really intend to defect at first - he was forced to defect by the paranoia of jittery officials. There are two versions of how this happened:

1) The prefect of Tianshui, Ma Zun, had led an army out to meet Zhuge Liang, and Jiang Wei was in it as the head of the military staff. But the prefect suspected that Jiang and his subordinates were intending to switch sides, so Ma fled back to Tianshui in the night. In the morning, Jiang and his men found the Prefect gone, and returned to Tianshui. Ma Zun refused to let them in. Jiang then led them to his home county of Ji 冀, but the people there wouldn't let him in either. So he had no choice but to join Zhuge Liang.

2) Guo Huai, governor of Yongzhou 雍州, was withdrawing east to Shanggui 上邽 to avoid Zhuge Liang's attack. Ma Zun feared that the people of Ji county would rebel if he went back to Tianshui, so he went with Guo Huai. Jiang Wei tried to persuade him to go back to Ji, but Ma instead said, "I won't trust you people - you're all rebels!" Jiang Wei had no choice but to go back to Ji, since his family was there. The people of Ji were overjoyed to see him and forced him to go and meet Zhuge Liang. Zhuge was impressed by him, and when the Shu-Han vanguard was defeated at Jieting, he brought Jiang Wei back to Shu-Han. Jiang did not really have a choice in the matter.

So Cardinal009: Jiang Wei was driven into the arms of Shu-Han by Ma Zun, rather than making a conscious career move. That's probably one of the drawbacks of assigning foreigners to be local officials. It avoids nepotism and private spheres of influence, but can create a sense of alienation between the official and his local staff.

[AhMan]

Yeah, i remember the story of Jiang Wei and his mom. They used names of herbs to convey their message to each other. He used yuanzhi to reveal that he would pursue his ambition.

[CARDINAL009]

In life, one cannot make decisions that pleases everyone.

As long as he believes in what he does. That is what counts at the end.

[likemath]

jiang wei is clever, but he can't be compared to shima yi, so the thing only makes \difference when chuge liang dies, shu will be overthrown by wei in a short time, maybe 5 years

[Yun]

Actually, it took 30 years for Wei to conquer Shu-Han. But it was the terrain rather than Jiang Wei that caused it to take so long. The Jianmen Pass is simply impossible to take.

[jiangji]

Actually, it took 30 years for Wei to conquer Shu-Han. But it was the terrain rather than Jiang Wei that caused it to take so long. The Jianmen Pass is simply impossible to take.

If Liu Chan listen to jiang Wei advise, the Shu may still survive.

[poirot]

Jiang Wei is the epitome of a hard working, striving person, never quitting on his goal. In both the RTK and San Guo Zhi, he is praised for his stubborn and dogged determination. Chen Shou describes Jiang Wei as a true general in his perspective of life: Jiang was frugal and owned little property, devoting himself entirely towards war with Wei.

Now, I pose a question for you RTK lovers:

Imagine that Jiang Wei fed up with Liu Chan's corruption and decided to take Huang Hao's life and hold Liu Chan as a puppet, much like Sima Zhao in Wei.
How much longer can Shu Han hold?

[jiangji]

Jiang Wei is the epitome of a hard working, striving person, never quitting on his goal.  In both the RTK and San Guo Zhi, he is praised for his stubborn and dogged determination.  Chen Shou describes Jiang Wei as a true general in his perspective of life: Jiang was frugal and owned little property, devoting himself entirely towards war with Wei.

Now, I pose a question for you RTK lovers:

Imagine that Jiang Wei fed up with Liu Chan's corruption and decided to take Huang Hao's life and hold Liu Chan as a puppet, much like Sima Zhao in Wei.
How much longer can Shu Han hold?

Personally, I think Shu will lasted a little longer than 263. It's really depend on him.
If he give up conquering Wei and put all the resources defending Shu, then it may last much longer than 263. However, I don't see jiang wei as a person that would just sit tight and do nothing. He will countinue his expedition against wei and will continue to drain the resources. Finally, it will fall much quickly.

[lobster]

Jiang Wei is the epitome of a hard working, striving person, never quitting on his goal.  In both the RTK and San Guo Zhi, he is praised for his stubborn and dogged determination.  Chen Shou describes Jiang Wei as a true general in his perspective of life: Jiang was frugal and owned little property, devoting himself entirely towards war with Wei.

Now, I pose a question for you RTK lovers:

Imagine that Jiang Wei fed up with Liu Chan's corruption and decided to take Huang Hao's life and hold Liu Chan as a puppet, much like Sima Zhao in Wei.
How much longer can Shu Han hold?

I think it's how long can Jiang Wei hold. If he held Liu Chan as puppet it's not long before his political enemies like Zhuge Zhan piled up on him.