92 replies to this topic

[Liang Jieming]

I can send you a passage from my paper but it is in Russian. It will take some time to translate it to English. Or I can send it to you on Russian and you will translate it with the On-line Interpreter.

The image of late Chosun hwacha you have published on your site is from "Yunwon pilbi" (1813) by Pak Jongyung. You can see the difference between the upper (1813) and lower (1474) images (from "Gookjo orye sorye").

Best regards,

Alexey.

Hi Alexey, yes please do sent the passage to me. I can do the translations from Russian at my end. My e-mail kitmengleong@yahoo.com

Of the two Korean Hwachas, the top one is from the 1813 publishing while the bottom is from the 1474 publishing?

Thanks
Jieming

[Altaica Militarica]

Hi Alexey, yes please do sent the passage to me. I can do the translations from Russian at my end. My e-mail kitmengleong@yahoo.com

Of the two Korean Hwachas, the top one is from the 1813 publishing while the bottom is from the 1474 publishing?

Thanks
Jieming

Please, check your e-mail. I will be in touch if comments or translation is necessary.

Exactly so - the hwacha with flags is of 1813 manual and the "classic" image is of 1474 manual.

Best regards,

Alexey.

[Liang Jieming]

Thank you!

[Hoa Phau]

Russia and germany might unite unless the Russian National Liberation Army* Liberated russia from stalinism. and they can make a plan to conquer china. Stalin might use Mao for help and support.

* they are the group of volunteer forces organized by Russian engineer Bronislaw Kaminski in the Russian region of Bryansk during the Second World War,

[Liang Jieming]

Chinese, of course. As a unit being mentioned in 1401 in China and in 1451 in Korea - everyone can see the difference.

Some details could vary, but the principle is the same. I think the range and effectiveness were very close to both types.

Best regards,

Alexey.

You have the references for these?

Thanks again.

[Altaica Militarica]

You have the references for these?

Thanks again.

Yes, the Chinese version was mentioned during so called Jingnan war (1399-14020 when Zhu Di (Emperor Yongle) fought with the second Ming Emperor for the reign. Loyalists used houche against Jurchen and mongol cavalry of Zhu Di but failet to stand for they furious assault. It is a book in Russian "Images of the Middle Empire" written by 2 outstanding Russian sinologists prof. A. Bokschanin (he is famous for his researching of SE Asian direction of Chinese expansion in Tang-Ming periods) and prof. O. Nepomnin (he has just published a book devoted to Qing history from the beginning to the end of the dynasty focusing upon the economical aspects of the period). They describes this battle with Zhu Di and huoche in few lines in the mentioned book.

Best regards,

Alexey.

[TMPikachu]

would a hwacha hit harder than a crossbow bolt or composite bow arrow? Or is it more for the shock effect of loud noise/smoke. I just don't know how fast these rockets travelled.

Edited by TMPikachu, 12 November 2005 - 04:42 PM.

[esse]

Any idea how effective these exotic toys were in real battles? I imagine they that they produced more psychological effects than real result, because there is no way to tell if an arrow will find its target

[Gubook Janggoon]

Any idea how effective these exotic toys were in real battles? I imagine they that they produced more psychological effects than real result, because there is no way to tell if an arrow will find its target

At the battle of Haengju Sanseong, they mowed down rows of Japanese...but only because the Japanese generals had decided to have their men march up the side of the mountain in dense formations.

[Altaica Militarica]

At the battle of Haengju Sanseong, they mowed down rows of Japanese...but only because the Japanese generals had decided to have their men march up the side of the mountain in dense formations.

The most part of these units were located in the Northern districts of Korea as they were intended to fight against Nuzhen cavalry and frighten their horses. In 1402 the huoche were used namely against rebel cavalry of Zhu Di consisting of Mongols and Nuzhens.

Best regards,

Alexey.

[esse]

The most part of these units were located in the Northern districts of Korea as they were intended to fight against Nuzhen cavalry and frighten their horses. In 1402 the huoche were used namely against rebel cavalry of Zhu Di consisting of Mongols and Nuzhens.

Best regards,

Alexey.

In short, they were fancy with questionable effectiveness?

[Altaica Militarica]

In short, they were fancy with questionable effectiveness?

I think, it depends. If cavalry attacks in close formation it could hit cavalrymen with the highest efficiency. If they attacks in loose formation their horses could be frightened heavily. In any case you could compare it to any poly-barrelled weapon of Middle-Aged Europe.

Best regards,

Alexey.

[TMPikachu]

But how much power does the rocket strike with, compared to arrows and bolts of that time?

I just figure that a crossbow or composite bow would hit with more power. Just a guess though.

[Altaica Militarica]

But how much power does the rocket strike with, compared to arrows and bolts of that time?

I just figure that a crossbow or composite bow would hit with more power. Just a guess though.

What kind of hwacha do you mean? In case of barrelled model it was common practice to use arrows to shoot via barrelled weapon such as Handgonne in XV century and this weapon was quite effective.

Best regards,

Alexey.

But how much power does the rocket strike with, compared to arrows and bolts of that time?

I just figure that a crossbow or composite bow would hit with more power. Just a guess though.

What kind of hwacha do you mean? In case of barrelled model it was common practice to use arrows to shoot via barrelled weapon such as Handgonne in XV century and this weapon was quite effective.

Best regards,

Alexey.