12 replies to this topic

[toois]

I think he was one of the mst interesting Emporer in Chinese history.

Looking forward to your views on him

[General_Zhaoyun]

I think he was one of the mst interesting Emporer in Chinese history.

Looking forward to your views on him

Ming Wu Zong (明武宗) [Zhu Hou Zhao 朱厚照) is one of the worst Ming ruler in chinese history. He was said to be the 'sleeping' emperor that did not care about the court affairs. He ascended the throne at the age of 15 and clearly indulged himself everyday on activities such as shooting, riding, hunting..he clearly liked to 'play' alot and do not care about court affairs.

He left all court affairs to be handled by eunuch Liu Jin 刘瑾. Liu Jin had always been fond of pampering Wu Zong and gained his liking. After he was promoted to be a high rank official, he induced Wu Zong to enjoy playing and taking other people's land. He monopolized court power and created a notorious department called "internal affairs guild (内行厂)", which was worst than the Eastern Guild (东厂)and Western Guild (西厂) [both were secret police department spying on the citizens]. If any official wished to petition a proposal, it has to go through Liu Jin (known as "red edition 红本"), after which it was then sent to other various department (known as "white edition 白本") . At that time, in the chinese court, it was popularly said there are 'two emperors'. This case of Liu Jin monopolizing and corrupting the court is known as "Liu Jin Luan Zheng 刘瑾乱政" (Liu Jin's corrupting on court).

Ming Wu Zong had even made use of the 'rebellion of Zhu Chen Hao 朱宸濠' as an excuse to tour the south enjoying himself catching fish and birds. During his trip back to the north, his boat capsized while he was catching fish. After he was rescued, he fell into sickness that never allowed him to recover.

[Klamath]

He is well known among public for two reason:
1. An opera named << woundering dragon dally with phoenix>> ， a story about him and a village girl(李凤姐）《游龙戏凤》
2. He investited himself as a general.
3. In addition, his "panther house"(豹房） is full of beauties,treasure and toys for playing.

[toois]

yes, the facts are clear. And i agree that he was one of the worst rulers we ever see in Ming.

However, i'd rather see him as a willful child, sometimes intimidated by the large and unfriendly bureaucracy. And i think his life best illustrates the absurdity of autocracy.

2. He investited himself as a general.

I think by doing this, he posed a important question: how far dose the power of an emperor goes?
When he declared himself to be another nonexistent man, he actually let us know that an emperor has the right to distort even some unquestinable truth, and the whole bureaucracy accepted as a fact for quite a long time, isn't it horrible?

[poirot]

The Ming version of Hugh Hefner

[Little Fool]

Zhu Houzhao was one of the most colourful emperor's in Chinese history - he cared nothing for governance, was an unabashed alcoholic who tasked a court attendant with the sole responsibility of following him around throughout the day carrying jug of hot wine and a ladle. Nonetheless despite bearing no children(he hated his emperess and instead went around the capital and surrounding countryside, hitting the bar scene and collecting village girls for his harem[often forcibly]) he still managed to construct a legacy - or, I daresay - The Legend of Zhu Houzhao.

Significant life events include:

-Getting drunk and falling out of a boat(already mentioned)
-Eventually had Liu Jin Luan Zheng executed - had him tortured for three days
-Getting mauled by a tiger during a hunt... he continued to be an avid hunter long afterward
-Exploding the imperial palace(evidently holding lantern parties near the tents where the gunpowder is stored is a bad idea)
-Mixing it up with Mongol bandits in the North.
-Made a game of getting his officials drunk
-Issued Imperial Edicts for gags.

[Moping4U]

Curse of the Ming Dynasty

Whereas Wanli and others can be classified as lazy and incompetent. This one is just aggressively destructive and shameful.

[Boarhuntr]

Zhu Houzhao was one of the most colourful emperor's in Chinese history - he cared nothing for governance, was an unabashed alcoholic who tasked a court attendant with the sole responsibility of following him around throughout the day carrying jug of hot wine and a ladle. Nonetheless despite bearing no children(he hated his emperess and instead went around the capital and surrounding countryside, hitting the bar scene and collecting village girls for his harem[often forcibly]) he still managed to construct a legacy - or, I daresay - The Legend of Zhu Houzhao.

Significant life events include:

-Getting drunk and falling out of a boat(already mentioned)
-Eventually had Liu Jin Luan Zheng executed - had him tortured for three days
-Getting mauled by a tiger during a hunt... he continued to be an avid hunter long afterward
-Exploding the imperial palace(evidently holding lantern parties near the tents where the gunpowder is stored is a bad idea)
-Mixing it up with Mongol bandits in the North.
-Made a game of getting his officials drunk
-Issued Imperial Edicts for gags.

Zhu Houzhao is my kind of guy. Energetic, lively, uninhibited. He would not subject himself to the confines of the court or bureaucracy and did as he pleased, even taunting those stifling officials that would clip his wings. Remember that after him many of the Ming Emperors were just pansies, wieners that probably could not even wield a sword. Houzhao was an accomplished horseman, skilful archer, and personally led couple of campaigns against the Mongols. He does not fit the stereotypical description of a white complexioned scholar (Bai mien shu sheng), and certainly cannot be described as a "Sick man of Asia" Too bad more Chinese rulers are not more like him. If he had been alive today he might even compete in the Olympics, probably skiing or judo, or Takewondo.
On the other hand, Wanli, who is Zhu Hou Zhao's grand nephew, was an indolent lazy type. There is no account of him going beyond the palace walls except to tour the site of his mausoleum. Now this emperor was so much of a couch potato that in his later years he could barely walk due to his weight. He might be described as a fat pig, inhaling all the fine cuisine the palace had to offer. Wanli never made an excursions agains the Mongols, probably didnd't hunt and fish.
I've always believed a strong ruler should be athletic. He should also hunt and fish so he can appreciate the wonders of nature and the animal kingdom. He should be curious about the realm that he rules, the mountains and rivers and lakes and plains. If a ruler does not venture outside the Forbidden City, how can he feel close to the earth and the country he rules ? How can he be in tune with the pulse of his great enormous country ?
I think Zhu Hou Zhao had the wherewithal, the fire in his belly to be a great Emperor. Part of his problem was that the Ming Court stifled his ambition and his immense yang force. So many times the civil officials petitoned him not to travel. It was not simply due to the expense of an Emperor venturing forth and costing the country money; the Ming officials truly believed that if the Emperor left the Forbidden City, then the cosmic forces of the country would be in imbalance. Therefore they wanted nothing more than to keep the Emperor in a gilded cage, while the eunuchs or grand secretarires went about administering the country in their old, stifling, bureaucratic way. After Wanli there were no Ming Emperors capable of leading an army to war, so China started slipping downward toward being a flabby giant. They even had trouble checking the power of the WoKou, which to be is rather ridiculous. How can a country as large as China's not be able to clean out some pirates on the coast, they probably numbering less than 100,000 men. China during the Han dynasty was able to field armies of 400,000 to fight the Mongols. Did the Ming by this time have no men, or no "real men" ?
China needs more leaderslike Houzhou, not some pansy pale faced poor excuse of a man leading the country. I want Chinese leaders to be able to fence, fight hand to hand combat, shoot the eye of a deer at a hundred yards, run a 2 minute mile, ride horses to chase down game, catch giant sturgeon in the rivers.
Like I said, Zhu Hou zhao is my kind of man.

Boarhuntr

[Moping4U]

Zhu Houzhao is my kind of guy. Energetic, lively, uninhibited. He would not subject himself to the confines of the court or bureaucracy and did as he pleased, even taunting those stifling officials that would clip his wings. Remember that after him many of the Ming Emperors were just pansies, wieners that probably could not even wield a sword. Houzhao was an accomplished horseman, skilful archer, and personally led couple of campaigns against the Mongols. He does not fit the stereotypical description of a white complexioned scholar (Bai mien shu sheng), and certainly cannot be described as a "Sick man of Asia" Too bad more Chinese rulers are not more like him. If he had been alive today he might even compete in the Olympics, probably skiing or judo, or Takewondo.
On the other hand, Wanli, who is Zhu Hou Zhao's grand nephew, was an indolent lazy type. There is no account of him going beyond the palace walls except to tour the site of his mausoleum. Now this emperor was so much of a couch potato that in his later years he could barely walk due to his weight. He might be described as a fat pig, inhaling all the fine cuisine the palace had to offer. Wanli never made an excursions agains the Mongols, probably didnd't hunt and fish.
I've always believed a strong ruler should be athletic. He should also hunt and fish so he can appreciate the wonders of nature and the animal kingdom. He should be curious about the realm that he rules, the mountains and rivers and lakes and plains. If a ruler does not venture outside the Forbidden City, how can he feel close to the earth and the country he rules ? How can he be in tune with the pulse of his great enormous country ?
I think Zhu Hou Zhao had the wherewithal, the fire in his belly to be a great Emperor. Part of his problem was that the Ming Court stifled his ambition and his immense yang force. So many times the civil officials petitoned him not to travel. It was not simply due to the expense of an Emperor venturing forth and costing the country money; the Ming officials truly believed that if the Emperor left the Forbidden City, then the cosmic forces of the country would be in imbalance. Therefore they wanted nothing more than to keep the Emperor in a gilded cage, while the eunuchs or grand secretarires went about administering the country in their old, stifling, bureaucratic way. After Wanli there were no Ming Emperors capable of leading an army to war, so China started slipping downward toward being a flabby giant. They even had trouble checking the power of the WoKou, which to be is rather ridiculous. How can a country as large as China's not be able to clean out some pirates on the coast, they probably numbering less than 100,000 men. China during the Han dynasty was able to field armies of 400,000 to fight the Mongols. Did the Ming by this time have no men, or no "real men" ?
China needs more leaderslike Houzhou, not some pansy pale faced poor excuse of a man leading the country. I want Chinese leaders to be able to fence, fight hand to hand combat, shoot the eye of a deer at a hundred yards, run a 2 minute mile, ride horses to chase down game, catch giant sturgeon in the rivers.
Like I said, Zhu Hou zhao is my kind of man.

Boarhuntr

Oh man, please tell me you're being sarcastic.


Zhu Houzhao only had fire in his pants. He did nothing good for the country. If there were anymore like Zhu Houzhao, I'm sure the court itself would've gotten rid of him themselves.

Sure, you can say that he's energetic, but did he do anything constructive with it? No, he went ahead to pleasure himself, abduct and rape innocent women, build his own little towns, pulling dangerous pranks on officials, placing eunuchs like Liu Jin in power, and playing general....yes thats right his life revolved ariound playing.

So strong emperors must be athletic, do 50,000 jumping jacks, bench press 300 lbs.......********. Strong emperors must be diligent, intelligent, and virtuous....that's all it is.

Edited by Moping4U, 29 January 2006 - 09:55 PM.

[Russian1]

On the other hand, Wanli, who is Zhu Hou Zhao's grand nephew, was an indolent lazy type. There is no account of him going beyond the palace walls except to tour the site of his mausoleum. Now this emperor was so much of a couch potato that in his later years he could barely walk due to his weight. He might be described as a fat pig, inhaling all the fine cuisine the palace had to offer. Wanli never made an excursions agains the Mongols, probably didnd't hunt and fish.

China needs more leaderslike Houzhou, not some pansy pale faced poor excuse of a man leading the country. I want Chinese leaders to be able to fence, fight hand to hand combat, shoot the eye of a deer at a hundred yards, run a 2 minute mile, ride horses to chase down game, catch giant sturgeon in the rivers.
Like I said, Zhu Hou zhao is my kind of man.

In Wanli early reign, he is a Energetic and Hardworking Emperor. He also can be considered "athletic" because he like horse riding and archery . The Law forbidden the Emperor to leave the forbidden palace and this explain why Wan-Li never go out of palace wall.

[Little Fool]

Zhu Huouzhao was probably one of China's worst rulers(despite being the most awesome).

He was too drunk most of the time to do anything.
He treated women as objects in ways reprehensible even by contemporary Chinese standards.
Too irresponsible to possibly run the country effectively.

On the other hand, I've always wondered about how it came to be so. Liu Jin spoiled Cheng te, who succeeded to the throne at the age of thirteen, where he was promptly introduced by his loyal eunuch 'uncle'(as he called Liu Jin) to travel the capital, partaking in both wine and women in copious quantities.

Its hard to place blame on a boy, who did show some exceptionally independant mindedness and martial qualities, as Boarhuntr points out, for failings that were created by others at a time in his life when he had no idea what he was getting into. By the time he was old enough to be considered a man capable of thinking on his own behalf, he was already a drunk and a womanizer(no wonder court held no interest for him!). He was however, athletic, and it is clear from the records that his military officers and men all thought highly of him(I suspect this is why despite the outrageously incompetent reign he led, rebellions against his rule were, in fact, crushed very succesfully by the military).

I find it hard to praise Wu Zhong as a ruler - he was, in fact, a very bad one.
Yet despite having no qualms about calling him one of Chinas worst rulers ever, I can still, with confidence call him:
Best. Emperor. Evar.

[hentaixp]

Not everyone is suited to be a leader. That is the weakness of monarchy

[Sephodwyrm]

Gao Yang exceed in every aspect of Zhu Haozhao mentioned. Check his biography. And he even did something good to his empire as well.