cao cao, or liu bei?
i think liu bei i used to think cao cao but ive been...enlightened.its still pretty close though.and i still like the KINGDOM of wei a little better
Cao Cao and Liu Bei
Started by
taylor21
, Jun 03 2005 12:01 PM
91 replies to this topic
#2
Yun
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Posted 03 June 2005 - 07:50 PM
Cao Cao. Liu Bei had neither talent nor virtue, just quite a bit of luck.
The dead have passed beyond our power to honour or dishonour them, but not beyond our ability to try and understand.
#3
dennisliu
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Posted 05 June 2005 - 07:12 AM
Cao Cao. Liu Bei had neither talent nor virtue, just quite a bit of luck.
luck means nothing, their forces suvive the chaotic period tells everything, they are both talent and intelligent. but Caocao is better, he is a genius in quatrain and skillful leader.
In the long run everything that happens is, as it were, no more than the initial disturbance of a perpetual state of rest which forever attempts to re-establish itself.
#4
Zhou Yu
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Posted 07 June 2005 - 12:16 AM
I vote both.
Liu Bei wanted peace
cao cao wanted power ( who could doubt him)
the way i see it they are just like every day people with a dream except (unlike many people) they fought to make their dream a reality.
Liu Bei wanted peace
cao cao wanted power ( who could doubt him)
the way i see it they are just like every day people with a dream except (unlike many people) they fought to make their dream a reality.
When the lights out.. its less dangerous.. here we are now.. entertain us
#5
Yun
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Posted 07 June 2005 - 04:55 AM
Did Liu Bei really want peace? I think he wanted power as much as any of the other warlords.
Liu Bei had a way of attracting good followers like Zhao Yun and Zhuge Liang, or rich ones like Mi Zhu. Cao Cao had a way of choosing good generals and advisors from people of lowly background.
But I still think that if Liu Bei had not been invited into Sichuan by a gullible Liu Zhang, he would never have been able to carry out Zhuge Liang's grand strategy. Compare this to Cao Cao and Sun Ce who seized the initiative to carve out their own careers.
Liu Bei had a way of attracting good followers like Zhao Yun and Zhuge Liang, or rich ones like Mi Zhu. Cao Cao had a way of choosing good generals and advisors from people of lowly background.
But I still think that if Liu Bei had not been invited into Sichuan by a gullible Liu Zhang, he would never have been able to carry out Zhuge Liang's grand strategy. Compare this to Cao Cao and Sun Ce who seized the initiative to carve out their own careers.
The dead have passed beyond our power to honour or dishonour them, but not beyond our ability to try and understand.
#6
sima old bandit
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Posted 07 June 2005 - 11:27 PM
The quickest way to achieve peace was to be pragmatic and work with Cao Cao to pacify the empire, not create a tri-partite situation to perpetuate the fighting and decimate the population even more.
#7
Guest_deathdoom56_*
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Posted 11 June 2005 - 09:54 AM
Cao Cao, he revolutionalized Chinese warfare with his use of cavalry.
Liu Bei was a just minor warlord who used outward looking virtue to gather support and struck rich.
Liu Bei was a just minor warlord who used outward looking virtue to gather support and struck rich.
#8
Yun
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Posted 11 June 2005 - 01:04 PM
Cao Cao, he revolutionalized Chinese warfare with his use of cavalry.
Didn't Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan use alot of cavalry (including the Xianbei and Wuhuan) even before Cao Cao?
The dead have passed beyond our power to honour or dishonour them, but not beyond our ability to try and understand.
#9
Guest_deathdoom56_*
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Posted 12 June 2005 - 09:45 AM
Didn't Yuan Shao and Gongsun Zan use alot of cavalry (including the Xianbei and Wuhuan) even before Cao Cao?
Yes, Gongsun adopted cavalry tactics from the barbarians that he fought. Cao Cao adopted cavalry from Lu Bu.
However, unlike Lu Bu and Gongsun who used cavalry for their shock power, Cao Cao used his cavalry for its mobility. A good example of that will be how 5,000 of his men chased Liu Bei and scattered his bloated army and citizens.
#10
DannyJo
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Posted 13 June 2005 - 08:01 AM
I voted Liu Bei, mainly because the novel portrays him in the most chivalrous light.
However I don't intend this to be a judgement of the real historical figures.
However I don't intend this to be a judgement of the real historical figures.
#11
青文景武剑
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Posted 16 June 2005 - 08:12 PM
both are talented politicians, however their family backgrounds and starting points are greatly different.
锦上添花是哥们，
雪中送炭是朋友，
有福同享有难同当是兄弟，
心有灵犀一点通的是知己，
一生知己不多，
你就是我的知己。
雪中送炭是朋友，
有福同享有难同当是兄弟，
心有灵犀一点通的是知己，
一生知己不多，
你就是我的知己。
#12
Master Jiang KI
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Posted 21 June 2005 - 03:07 PM
i have to go with liu bei on this one, although he did almost rely on kongming for EVERYTHING!!!.....o well i would have to 
Was ist los
#13
青文景武剑
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Posted 21 June 2005 - 09:02 PM
LiuBei is a successful politician
锦上添花是哥们，
雪中送炭是朋友，
有福同享有难同当是兄弟，
心有灵犀一点通的是知己，
一生知己不多，
你就是我的知己。
雪中送炭是朋友，
有福同享有难同当是兄弟，
心有灵犀一点通的是知己，
一生知己不多，
你就是我的知己。
#14
sima old bandit
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Posted 22 June 2005 - 05:49 AM
Cao Cao was pretty hypocritical too. He always proclaimed how loyal he was to the throne. And after sentencing someone to death he would always shed crocodile tears but never pardon them. I'm afraid he isn't the forthright character who is not afraid to say what he meant and practice what he preached.
#15
lianghaochen
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Posted 22 June 2005 - 11:38 AM
liu bei is a weak character....he crys all the time.....
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