14 replies to this topic

[TMPikachu]

I remember seeing a map of East Asia, with this sort of char in sections that show genetic similiarities in those areas, could someone link it? It would be nice to sticky

[Adee]

Like this one?



From one of rudeboy's posts.

[DomaHwang]

For your reference
http://hpgl.stanford..._ch17_proof.pdf

[qrasy]

Page 308 seems about Mongolian and Australian.
Page 309 other East Asians.

Hm.. So maybe rudeboy coloured the charts to make it clearer.

[ren]

[quote name='qrasy' date='Aug 5 2005, 12:33 AM']Page 308 seems about Mongolian and Australian.
Page 309 other East Asians.[/quote]
No, it's not that simple.

[QUOTE]Hm.. So maybe rudeboy coloured the charts to make it clearer.
[right][/right]
No, but it's by the same guy.

These two maps show male/paternal lineages (nothing ambiguous about this; You're either a son of.. or not), and isn't explicit genetic affinity, which is autosomal. For example, a Nigerian and an Englishman can have the same lineage, so take it in perspective.

The maps show a north-south dichotomy of what is interpreted as ultimately northern and southern lineages, waves coming into Asia 10s of thousands of years ago from different directions:


Here is the tree explaining descent:


Global perspective of 2005 paternal/Y-chromosome lineage tree in context:



It's very complicated so I'll update with clarifications, and there are always reference stuff at my forum.

Edited by rudeboy, 07 August 2005 - 06:07 PM.

[qrasy]

No, it's not that simple.

Yeah, my bad approximation means 'Southern Lineage' ~ Mongolian +Australian, and 'Northern Lineage' ~ The rest of them. (North South dicotomy)

These two maps show male/paternal lineages (nothing ambiguous about this; You're either a son of.. or not), and isn't explicit genetic affinity, which is autosomal. For example, a Nigerian and an Englishman can have the same lineage, so take it in perspective.

I want to add some: Y-gene does not affect your appearance, except if it is abnormal (e.g. hypertricosis: too hairy. http://en.wikipedia...._hypertrichosis Sometimes as hairy as animals. I've heard the legend of 狗国, where the males looked like dog and the females looked just like normal human).
The contributor of Y-gene is your ultra male ancestor, but he actually only contributes very little for the case of autosomal genes (genes which stands for main apprerance).

Here is the tree explaining descent:
http://i4.photobucke...ploO_Haplo7.jpg http://i4.photobucke.../RPS4Y_M130.jpg

By the way some genes coloured on the East Asian distribution pictures is 'mysterious' to non-expert like us (not in your Y-gene graphs of 5th and 7th group).
I can read some of the small signs (M*** name) in the line connecting different Y-gene (e.g M214 before O and N). But most of them are not very clear.

http://img.photobuck...etics/Y-Hg1.jpg

Looks better here (PNG format. I once tried converting documents to JPG but it looked bad):

Edited by qrasy, 08 August 2005 - 03:51 AM.

[naruwan]

Map of east asian genetics...
http://www.narayaku....age/dna_map.jpg

As you can see, northern Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are genetically similar, While southern Chinese are very different.

For Taiwan and Austronesia genetic map, please see this map with some VERY BIG pictures...

http://biology.plosj...al.pbio.0030247

[Adee]

Map of east asian genetics...
http://www.narayaku....age/dna_map.jpg

As you can see, northern Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are genetically similar, While southern Chinese are very different.

Actually this map is now out dated.

[qrasy]

Map of east asian genetics...
http://www.narayaku....age/dna_map.jpg

As you can see, northern Chinese, Japanese and Koreans are genetically similar, While southern Chinese are very different.

Actually this map is now out dated.

Yeah, but don't forget what this map "shows".
Actually, this map is inconclusive at all since North Chinese/Japanese has a quarter 'red' afb1b3 gene (South East Asians).
EDIT: and they "are" closer to Dravidian than SouthEast Asians.

http://www.dai3gen.net/emails5.htm

White people's Gm blood typically is fb1b3. Associating this fact with the African Eva theory and other knowledge, ... Compare afb1b3 with ab1b3 or fb1b3. Thus, in my mind, Africans seem to be the root for Whites and South Asians. ...At any rate, ag and axg are only one digit different between each other, suggesting that one is a mutation of the other. Nextly, peculiar to Mongoloid, there is Gm blood type ab3st. Judging from only one fact that Aboriginee has only ag and/or axg and not ab3st, the ab3st would be born later than ag/axg.

(never mind, in HLA test (another genetic test), Japanese and Greeks are closer to African than neighbour like Korean)

Edited by qrasy, 21 August 2005 - 02:11 AM.

[fsgien]

Yeah, but don't forget what this map "shows".
Actually, this map is inconclusive at all since North Chinese/Japanese has a quarter 'red' afb1b3 gene (South East Asians).
EDIT: and they "are" closer to Dravidian than SouthEast Asians.

http://www.dai3gen.net/emails5.htm

(never mind, in HLA test (another genetic test), Japanese and Greeks are closer to African than neighbour like Korean)

interesting detailed trivia !
wonder if it is part of the nature-nurture dilemma ?
does it parallel to a tribalism-globalisation dilemma ?

by harping on the tribal similarities
we are with a pencil categorising people and nations
looks like the colonial overlords who drew borders
to create nation without regard to cultures and traditions
that is the major dilemma of modern mankind
aka sophisticated homosapiens trying to recreate
rather than regenerate

[Ed Ziomek]

Great thread...

Just a side note, I am late to this discussion...

I have read there are 400 Hebrew words in Japanese, and at least three books detailing the Egyptian/Judaic/Babylonian connection between languages.

For example... (I am only an amateur, please allow me...)

Si - yah -nah - rah, ............the Egyptian possible translation...

Wisdom, power, protection Si Sia (as in Science, i.e., Knowledge is power/protection)

Moon God Yah Egyptian Moon God (Yah) also part of Judaic Yah-weh

Nah-rah Rising Sun God "Ra" almost identical to "Nee-han" and "Nee Pon" Rising Sun

"May the Moon and the Rising Sun Protect you... " (i.e., Goodbye)

Yes, I am making some intellectual leaps, but the pieces fit (or certainly I want them to fit)

Source for your reveiw... Wallis Budge's "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary", 1921 or so.

And didn't the Phoenicians travel as far as "around Africa" all the way to Southeast asia? (I am told)

My two cents... your thoughts?

[naruwan]

Great thread...

Just a side note, I am late to this discussion...

I have read there are 400 Hebrew words in Japanese, and at least three books detailing the Egyptian/Judaic/Babylonian connection between languages.

For example... (I am only an amateur, please allow me...)

Si - yah -nah - rah, ............the Egyptian possible translation...

Wisdom, power, protection Si Sia (as in Science, i.e., Knowledge is power/protection)

Moon God Yah Egyptian Moon God (Yah) also part of Judaic Yah-weh

Nah-rah Rising Sun God "Ra" almost identical to "Nee-han" and "Nee Pon" Rising Sun

"May the Moon and the Rising Sun Protect you... " (i.e., Goodbye)

Yes, I am making some intellectual leaps, but the pieces fit (or certainly I want them to fit)

Source for your reveiw... Wallis Budge's "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary", 1921 or so.

And didn't the Phoenicians travel as far as "around Africa" all the way to Southeast asia? (I am told)

My two cents... your thoughts?

I feel that numbers are probably the part of a language that carries most linguisted genes....

[qrasy]

Great thread...

Just a side note, I am late to this discussion...

I have read there are 400 Hebrew words in Japanese, and at least three books detailing the Egyptian/Judaic/Babylonian connection between languages.

For example... (I am only an amateur, please allow me...)

Si - yah -nah - rah, ............the Egyptian possible translation...

Wisdom, power, protection Si Sia (as in Science, i.e., Knowledge is power/protection)

Moon God Yah Egyptian Moon God (Yah) also part of Judaic Yah-weh

Nah-rah Rising Sun God "Ra" almost identical to "Nee-han" and "Nee Pon" Rising Sun

"May the Moon and the Rising Sun Protect you... " (i.e., Goodbye)

Yes, I am making some intellectual leaps, but the pieces fit (or certainly I want them to fit)

Source for your reveiw... Wallis Budge's "An Egyptian Hieroglyphic Dictionary", 1921 or so.

And didn't the Phoenicians travel as far as "around Africa" all the way to Southeast asia? (I am told)

My two cents... your thoughts?

I think you posted in wrong thread. You should find the thread which contains amazing "Linguistic Correspondences", if I recall correctly it's called " Greek came from Yunnan and Korea?; hilarious theory"

[ymbx]

could you tell me where did you find those 2 pictures?thank you.
能请您告诉我您是在哪里找到这两张图片的吗？我想引用到别的地方，需要一个正式可靠的出处，谢谢：）

Edited by ymbx, 16 August 2007 - 07:33 AM.