16 replies to this topic

[General_Zhaoyun]

Does anyone knows any famous courtesan or prostitutes in chinese history?

I only know of Sai Jinhua 塞金花, who supposedly has seduced the German commander of the allied 8-power united army during the Boxer rebellion (late Qing dynasty). Without her seduction, many chinese artifacts could have winded up in the museums of Berlin, London, Paris and Moscow.

Another courtesan is Chen Yuanyuan 陈圆圆 , who was supposedly Wu Sangui's wife (late ming dynasty).There is a saying that "beauty can conquer the mighty", and she was no exception. She was said to be exceptionally beautiful and her capture by Li Zicheng was one of the reasons (although not the main one) that caused Wu Sangui to open Shanhaiguan to the Manchus.

Any other comments is appreciated.

I heard that Qinshihuang's mother was also a prostitute (let me know if I was wrong).

[Cao Cao]

I wouldnt call Qin Shihuang's mother (Zhao Ji) a prostitute, but historical facts did state that she was a courtesan (maybe even mistress?) in Lu Buwei's household. That is, the Lu Buwei who was prime minister of Qin under Qin Shihuang and his father's reigns. I think it is because of Zhao Ji and Lu's past history that many suspected Lu to be Qin Shihuang's birth father.

Interestingly, in Frederic Wakeman's "The Great Enterprise" about the founding of the Qing Dynasty, Dong Xiaowan and Chen Yuanyuan were both mentioned; however, contrary to folk history, he did not write Dong Xiaowan as the concubine of the Shunzhi Emperor (whose beloved concubine was Lady Dong'e, not Dong Xiaowan).

[Sephodwyrm]

Actually, Zhao Ji probably worked as a professional entertainer when Lu Buwei and her husband Yiren went to Qin to establish a succession right. Given the situation between Qin and Zhao, it is likely that Zhao Ji and her son were very impoverished and had to do very menial tasks and jobs...

And that's probably the reason why Qin Shihuang hated Zhao so much...

[Yun]

A good Chinese site on famous courtesans: http://heritage.tom.com/zhuanti/mingji

Some of the most famous among the many listed there are:

Su Xiaoxiao 苏小小
Li Shishi 李师师
Liu Rushi 柳如是
Du Qiuniang 杜秋娘
Xue Tao 薛涛
Yu Xuanji 鱼玄机

But many of the other stories (such as Diao Chan and Huo Xiaoyu) are actually from popular legends and literature, and may not be reliable as historical fact. It's also interesting to note that Zhao Ji is included in the list.

[Ghost_of_Han]

But many of the other stories (such as Diao Chan and Huo Xiaoyu) are actually from popular legends and literature, and may not be reliable as historical fact. It's also interesting to note that Zhao Ji is included in the list.

Diao Chan existed in essence, they was a girl who did those things, but her name is never metioned in History. We kinda covered this in the Diao Chan Post.

[Yun]

Well, all we have from the Sanguo Zhi is that there was a servant girl or concubine of Dong Zhuo's who had an affair with Lu Bu. No mention that the girl had anything to do with Wang Yun, or that it was part of any plot.

[Bryan]

wasn't there a chinese goddess of prostitutes?

[janz]

i think goddess of prostitutes is goddess of mercy. 观音菩萨。

[Yun]

Guanyin is basically the favourite deity of all Chinese women, not just prostitutes.

This is the woman known as the Chinese patron deity of prostitutes: Pan Jinlian from the novels "The Water Margin" and "The Golden Lotus".

http://www.pantheon....n_jin_lian.html
http://www.wku.edu/~.../panjinlian.htm

[General_Zhaoyun]

Well, Pan Jinlian is probably the most famous "slut" due to the novel "Water Margin" (Sui hu Zuan 水浒传). But was she a prostitute? I thought she was just a fiction wanton lady(荡妇) and not a historical figure.

[janz]

wasn't there a legend where goddess of mercy was a prostitute? :blink:


ok, i googled to the following page

http://www.orientbud....06/102840.html

looks like one of the guanyin was a prostitute..... it's a little bit different from what i heard, but mainly the same.

　中唐时期李复言的《续玄怪录》记载的《延州妇人》与之有同又有不同。所同之点是故事的梗概相似，观音化为妇女死后遍身锁骨钩结如锁，称为:"锁骨菩萨"。不同之点是:其一，美女既没有提篮卖鱼，也没有愿作马郎妇。其二，没有美女教授经卷的内容，而是她与年少游子"狙呢荐枕，一无所却"。她死后 "州人不悲惜"。其三，当世人称之为 "淫纵女子"的时候，西域胡人却提出完全相反的看法:"斯乃大圣，慈悲喜舍，世俗之欲，无不徊焉。"与马郎妇的故事有很大不同的是，前者讲得是"离欲"，后者宣传的是人欲。有欲耶?无欲耶?纵欲耶?禁欲耶?在此没有争论的必要，但是《延州妇人》的故事显然是马郎妇的雏形。正如当代学者孙昌武先生所分析的:"把淫妇人当作菩萨的显化，显示了唐时人的弘通意识。"叫这个见解启示了我们对女性观音的探索。宋叶庭圭 《海录碎事》卷13所载比前简练，意思大致相同:"释氏书，昔有贤女马郎妇，于金沙滩上施一切人淫，凡与交者，永绝其淫。死葬后，一焚僧日:"求我侣。掘开乃锁子骨，焚僧以仗挑起，升云而去。"这里再一次强调马郎妇就是锁骨菩萨，观音是以妇女的身份出现的，而且名分是马郎的妻子。

[Ghost_of_Han]

Guanyin is basically the favourite deity of all Chinese women, not just prostitutes.

What about Nu Wa, I mean common she has the sign for female as her first charcter.

[Yun]

Nuwa isn't actually worshipped in China. She's just in the legends, that's all.

[Borjigin Ayurbarwada]

Nu wa is worshipped in older times but not today, it got extinct like the ancient Greek gods.

"i think goddess of prostitutes is goddess of mercy. "

I hope you do not say this to a buddihist. Guan Yin is a virgin in fact she is not even a woman, Guan Yin is a buddisatva(spelling) that has many forms, some of her temple has male form of him.


However those that GZ brought up really aren't prostitutes or Ji.
Also don't forget Xi Shi, who helped Gou Jian destroy the Wu kingdom.

[Yun]

Some of the best Chinese female poets were courtesans - for example, Yu Xuanji and Xue Tao. That's because their job included much more than satisfying their clients sexually - they also had to be intellectually compatible to the scholars who patronised them, often unlike the wives of these scholars themselves (who might not have received much education because a virtuous woman is supposed to be untalented in traditional Chinese gender ethics). So from her youth a courtesan would be trained by her guardians (basically the owners of the brothel) in literature, art and music. The scholars couldn't resist women with both talent and beauty, and their affairs with such courtesans are a favourite subject in popular Chinese literature from the Tang and Song dynasties onwards.