192 replies to this topic

[Habsburg_Castillian]

Hello everyone.

I am a Greek and Roman history major (that actually likes all history) that is interested in comparing and contrasting some things about The Romans and the Imperial Chinese. I will actually expand this beyond technology and include perhaps military tactics and philosophy/ideas.

For those of you that have a moderate knowledge of both the Han Empire and Roman Empire circa 120 A.D.

Both Empires were at the hight of thier power around this time, as I understand (I don't know very much in detail about Imperial China). Both had the more territory than any other nation.

The Romans had things like Concrete building and Ballistas. The Romans had trouble with the ethinic diverity, however. The Mediterranean sea was their ultimate "waterway" when they relied on communication and transportation.

I understand the Chinese had Stirrups, fireworks/gunpowder? and hand-held crossbows(Ballistas)? The Han never controlled Tibet or Japan though. They heavily relied on two huge rivers for communication and trasportation, I think. They also had the Great Wall that did make a difference, right?

I would like to create an interesting discussion here, as I am looking forward to learning more about Chinese history (and I'm planning on taking a Late Imperial China course next semester).

Cheers!

-HC

[jiangji]

Romans were definitely one of the most advanced to appear in world at that time. However, Han china were more advanced. Han had technologically superior siege machines compared to the Romans. Paper and ink were invented during Han. I think we discuss it in Han Vs Roman thread. you can look at it.


Gunpowder was invented in Song dynasty . However, Song technology superiority did not save it from being conquered by the mongol. Great wall was build by the First Qin Emperor to deter babarian raids. Extensive works on great wall began during the Ming dynasty to deter mongol raids but was not meant to stop large invasion. Ming are much less aggressive dynasty compare to Tang and Han empire, this is why building/improving great wall was much more important. Tang and Han manage to extend their empire far beyond great wall, this is why improving great wall was not priority.

About the stirrup

THE STIRRUP AND ITS EFFECT ON CHINESE MILITARY HISTORY
By Prof. Albert Dien

http://www.silk-road...l/stirrup.shtml

Edited by jiangji, 05 July 2005 - 06:18 PM.

[Mei Houwang]

Ah yes, you'll get a lot of information of Rome v Han in the Art of war section. But most of them's military though. I think in terms of technology, Rome didn't invent much, and didn't come up with as many ideas as the Greeks before them. Old saying goes "drains but not brains". Greeks were so much better. Might want to compare Greece and Warring states instead.

[Merchant]

Ah yes, you'll get a lot of information of Rome v Han in the Art of war section. But most of them's military though. I think in terms of technology, Rome didn't invent much, and didn't come up with as many ideas as the Greeks before them. Old saying goes "drains but not brains". Greeks were so much better. Might want to compare Greece and Warring states instead.

My goodness, Romans did not come up with much? The Roman Baths were out off this world. So were their highways. Roman ships were equally impressive.

Their stone buildings and structures survived to this day. How many Han buildings made it?

I am not to say Romans are better, I think we are doing Guan Gong Fight QinQiong here. Both are very advanced comparing to the rest of the world.

[Mei Houwang]

My goodness, Romans did not come up with much? The Roman Baths were out off this world.

Their stone buildings and structures survived to this day. How many Han buildings made it?

Exactly, "drains but not brains"

So were their highways.

How's that to do with technology?

Roman ships were equally impressive

That part I have to disagree with. No multi masts, no rudder, no watertight compartments.

Edited by Anthrophobia, 05 July 2005 - 07:17 PM.

[Sephodwyrm]

The Chinese had sewer pipes back in the Warring States. It is made of a series of interlocking pipe sections.

Plus, plague control was probably better in China than in Rome. The disastrous effects of the plague is less prominent in China.

[TMPikachu]

Check out the 'Han vs Rome' Thread in the Military section

mind the heated words, but EVERYTHING that could be discussed, will be

don't be daunted by the 40+ or so pages, just start reading from the beginning, around the 8th page or so everything just repeats

[Puerto Rican Legionary]

“Rome didn't invent much, and didn't come up with as many ideas as the Greeks before them. Old saying goes "drains but not brains". Greeks were so much better. Might want to compare Greece and Warring states instead.”


Dude, that were you are wrong…

I am going to have a separate posts about this.

And also medical science or technology and new weapons that has been recently discovered…


“That part I have to disagree with. No multi masts, no rudder, no watertight compartments”

Will actually did they have pretty good ships….
Later on a really neat ships because they defeated all their enemies, at least the Naval powers.

Edited by Puerto Rican Legionary, 05 August 2005 - 06:24 PM.

[Mei Houwang]

What do you mean? You already posted of Roman inventions previous. A lot of them were from the Greeks, the other I seriously doubt(Hammer and nail), and the rest weren't inventions(the words of the month) but cultural attributes. Only in engineering technology did the Romans come up with something totally original.

[ChiangAP]

Ah yes, you'll get a lot of information of Rome v Han in the Art of war section. But most of them's military though. I think in terms of technology, Rome didn't invent much, and didn't come up with as many ideas as the Greeks before them. Old saying goes "drains but not brains". Greeks were so much better. Might want to compare Greece and Warring states instead.

1/ Considering the size of its population at the time, Greece cannot possibly be compared to the Warring States.
2/ What we learn in this country (which by the way owes everything to the Roman colonisation), is that Rome inherited and integrated the Greek culture. History books talk of "civilisation gréco-romaine", and never try to oppose one to the other.
3/

[ChiangAP]

Ah yes, you'll get a lot of information of Rome v Han in the Art of war section. But most of them's military though. I think in terms of technology, Rome didn't invent much, and didn't come up with as many ideas as the Greeks before them. Old saying goes "drains but not brains". Greeks were so much better. Might want to compare Greece and Warring states instead.

1/ Considering the size of its population at the time, Greece cannot possibly be compared to the Warring States. There were cities fighting one another, not states.
2/ What we learn in France (which by the way owes everything to the Roman colonisation), is that Rome inherited and integrated the Greek culture. French history books talk of "our civilisation gréco-romaine", and never try to oppose one to the other.
3/ Going back to the Chinese civilisation, one of the first thing schoolchildren learn in this country is how far advanced Chinese were. We had to learn a long list of the things Chinese could do (printing, compass, gun powder, iron, kilns and porcelain, etc.) and were only "discovered" century or even thousand years after in Europe.
The other day I took a Chinese (ROC) friend to the "place Guttenberg" in Strasbourg - Guttenberg is the man who "invented" printing) - She thought the situation was quite comical.
4/ De Gaulle's former minister and historian Alain Peyrefitte wrote several well documented books about eighteenth century China ("L'Empire immobile" ), fifty years before the opium war. In his opinion, Europe overtook China maybe, at the time of the "Sun King" Louis the Fourteenth, i.e. the reign of Kang Xi. And Peyrefitte only talks of technologies, not of philosophy or the arts.

[ih8eurocentrix]

About roman building lasting to this day and the massive buildings they could make was due to the fact they found a highly effective way of producing concrete,the greeks initially taught romans how to but it would take hundreds of years for the concrete to set,romans found however that the volcanic sand around naples could absorb the concrete easily and concrete could be made in one hour by placing sand limestone water and something else i cant remember ,but i saw a documentry in which an old lady historian who discovered the secret went to naples beach and easily made it by herself

[General_Zhaoyun]

Note that paper was invented during late eastern Han dynasty by Cai Lun. Back then, I think the Roman were still using papyrus to write.

[thirdgumi]

concrete could be made in one hour by placing sand limestone water and something else i cant remember ,

might it be whitewash?

[Puerto Rican Legionary]

“What do you mean? You already posted of Roman inventions previous. A lot of them were from the Greeks, the other I seriously doubt(Hammer and nail), and the rest weren't inventions(the words of the month) but cultural attributes. Only in engineering technology did the Romans come up with something totally original.”

That’s true but this post have the old and the new information,
formation that I learned recently.

It’s a big post so, if people want me to divide in half its cool.
So tell me.