74 replies to this topic

[tongyan]

I realize the tone dismatches original Chinese (all Chiense I know have Shang tone rather than Qu tone), and the form resembles Middle Chinese.
This "understand" could have come from "bright". tongyan, how do you use this word?

qrasy.
when i use the word 曉 in regular speech it is usually in a word-group like in 揭曉
i know the older generation uses 曉 to mean 'know, understand, familiar with'
i am sure most of the younger generation like me still understands the word in this context but will rarely use it, if ever. the only instance i can think of using it is to produce a comic effect, similar to the effect of using mandarin equivalents for cantonese terms.

let me illustrate its use in a hypothetical dialogue between me and my friend:

seeing that my friend has no idea how to use the computer i say:
me: 曉唔曉架你﹖ hiu ng hiu ga nei? (do you know how it's done, how it works, etc)
response: 曉你個死人頭 (literally, know ur D**n dead head)

ya know, like using 計程車 'gai sing ce' instead of 的士 'dik si' it's just used to induce laughter or irritate someone

[ren]

We use 人客 (ninkhaq) in Wu dialects all the time. In fact, older generations use 人客 exclusively. The term 做人客 in Wu sounds really weird if we said 做客人.

Is this word order also the origin of Shanghai, when the guy really meant "hai shang"?

[nishishei]

Is this word order also the origin of Shanghai, when the guy really meant "hai shang"?

Yup... 海上、上海 both mean the city of Shanghai.
海上 to refer to Shanghai is considered more literary (more Mandarin).

[ren]

Yup... 海上、上海 both mean the city of Shanghai.
海上 to refer to Shanghai is considered more literary (more Mandarin).

Considered more literary.. what a shame. Spoken Shanghainess sounds way more eloquent to my ears than any non-sanitized/non-TV-annnouncer Mandarin dialect.

[thedamnrainman]

計程車?
I always use 的士. anyway

You know who Stephen Chow is? Was watching Shaolin Soccer and I kept hearing him say "deen gai" instead of "deem gai" am I hearing things or did he always speak like that?

[nguoiVietchanhtong]

計程車?
I always use 的士. anyway

You know who Stephen Chow is? Was watching Shaolin Soccer and I kept hearing him say "deen gai" instead of "deem gai" am I hearing things or did he always speak like that?

Stephen Chow is not Cantonese. Deen gai in Cantonese does not mean Taxi. In Vietnamese, we say 的士 for Taxi, as the closest sound. The original of the Cantonese is the Yue and Nan Yue King, Trieu Da. Do you want to trace more, the Wu. Remember the Wu and the Shu came from the South. Lao Tu is from the South. The New Year is from the South. So much more interesting cultural activities are from the South. GuangChou should be the capital instead of Beijing.

[thedamnrainman]

Stephen Chow is not Cantonese. Deen gai in Cantonese does not mean Taxi.

My fault, I left something out. Sorry. "deen gai" ( 點觧 <- I think those are the characters) means "why?" but he pronounces it a bit differently cause it's suposed to be "deem gai" not "deen gai".

[tongyan]

計程車?
I always use 的士. anyway

you don't get my point... i always use 的士 too. the fact that 計程車 is never used makes it humorous or irritating when it IS used.

You know who Stephen Chow is? Was watching Shaolin Soccer and I kept hearing him say "deen gai" instead of "deem gai" am I hearing things or did he always speak like that?

do you know who stephen chow is. if you did, you would know that he didn't always speak like that, he's always been changing the sounds in certain words for a humorous effect. like "hou gong" for 好劲 when it should be "hou ging"

[urofpersia]

you don't get my point... i always use 的士 too. the fact that 計程車 is never used makes it humorous or irritating when it IS used.

AFAIK only the Taiwanese use 计程车， here in Singapore we use 的士 as well。I hasten to add in all chinese languages.

[nishishei]

AFAIK only the Taiwanese use 计程车， here in Singapore we use 的士 as well。I hasten to add in all chinese languages.

nope, not all Chinese languages.

In Shanghainese we say 插头 tsaadeu; younger people might also say 塌克西, which is exactly like the Japanese pronunciation タクシー.

的士 in Shanghainese sounds kind of like "dizz" or "dizzy"; we never ever use 的士.
迪士尼 is Disney afterall.

[urofpersia]

nope, not all Chinese languages.

In Shanghainese we say 插头 tsaadeu; younger people might also say 塌克西, which is exactly like the Japanese pronunciation.

的士 in Shanghainese sounds kind of like "dizz" or "dizzy"; we never ever use 的士.

I mean the Chinese languages spoken in Singapore.

[qrasy]

I never thought that 上海 means "above the sea", I thought of "go to the sea".
So does Shanghainese use 上 as verb? Or since some sentence form follows (S)OV combination, "go to sea" become "海上"?

nope, not all Chinese languages.

In Shanghainese we say 插头 tsaadeu; younger people might also say 塌克西, which is exactly like the Japanese pronunciation タクシー.

的士 in Shanghainese sounds kind of like "dizz" or "dizzy"; we never ever use 的士.
迪士尼 is Disney afterall.

塌克西 is also very similar to Takushii in Mandarin.
What's actually behind 插头 tsaadeu? I don't see anything related to taxi. (perhaps related to some other vehicles?)

By the way, when I hear 計程車 I think of 'public transportation', especially Bus.

Edited by qrasy, 24 September 2005 - 03:22 AM.

[nishishei]

I never thought that 上海 means "above the sea", I thought of "go to the sea".
So does Shanghainese use 上 as verb? Or since some sentence form follows (S)OV combination, "go to sea" become "海上"?

Shanghai really is "above the sea" in meaning. The name existed (as the name of a wine shop) long before Shanghai was even a port. Yeah, we can use 上 as a verb, but there has to be a 去 at the end of the sentence: “上·海·去”, and tone sandhi is "zan hei chii", instead of 上海·去 "Zanhei chii" (which would be, "to go to Shanghai").

塌克西 is also very similar to Takushii in Mandarin.

Well not in terms of the rhythm. The rhythm in Shanghainese matches perfectly with the Japanese (short-short-long). When I say 塌克西 in Mandarin, it's going to sound very Mandarin and not Japanese.

What's actually behind 插头 tsaadeu? I don't see anything related to taxi. (perhaps related to some other vehicles?)

it just means something like "servant", "helping hand".

[tongyan]

Well not in terms of the rhythm. The rhythm in Shanghainese matches perfectly with the Japanese (short-short-long). When I say 塌克西 in Mandarin, it's going to sound very Mandarin and not Japanese.
it just means something like "servant", "helping hand".

dude, if you say something in Mandarin, of course it's going to sound very Mandarin and not Japanese. why would anyone want to speak a chinese language and have it want to sound Japanese? if you wanted to sound Japanese, you can just speak Japanese.
maybe i'm misunderstanding something here?

[nishishei]

dude, if you say something in Mandarin, of course it's going to sound very Mandarin and not Japanese. why would anyone want to speak a chinese language and have it want to sound Japanese? if you wanted to sound Japanese, you can just speak Japanese.
maybe i'm misunderstanding something here?

Um, I guess you are misunderstanding then. No one is "trying to sound Japanese."
Some Chinese dialects, like Wenzhou-hua and quite a few other Wu dialects, already sound like Japanese; because their phonology and rhythm (mora structure) are more similar to Japanese than Mandarin.

Mandarin and Cantonese simply cannot sound like Japanese because each syllable is too heavy, too long, and the tones come off too strong. But not all Chinese dialects are like Mandarin and Cantonese.