32 replies to this topic

[BlueDragonMagik]

I just started to learn how to play Chinese Elephant Chess. ... And I do not get it .. why the two generals ( the Shi and Jiang <?>) cannot face each other across the board? ... Why is the rule there? And if they face each other, the general can jump across the board like the cannon and whack him. ... Do anyone know anything about it?

Edited by BlueDragonMagik, 11 July 2005 - 10:28 AM.

[AhMan]

I guess it just the rule, to make the game stricter and avoid a draw when one side only has Chariot and General left (you know what i mean).

[dej2]

My thoughts on the Generals... goes back to the Zhou, Nobles can issue challenges to other men of nobility. Generals use chariots when in battle and can essentially move as fast as the Chariot (rooks). Should your opponent moves infront of your General he is emmidiately challenged and is run through. (Its unfortunate that they are not good at fighting regular troops.)

[naruwan]

I just started to learn how to play Chinese Elephant Chess.  ... And I do not get it .. why the two generals ( the Shi and Jiang <?>) cannot face each other across the board? ...  Why is the rule there?  And if they face each other, the general can jump across the board like the cannon and whack him.  ...  Do anyone know anything about it?

I remember back in the APPLE II days.... (wow... yes, long time ago) when I was playing against the computer, I took down his Jiang, and yet the game didn't end. It continued till i ate every single one of his pawns....

that's one strange bug.

Anyway, to compare the 3 similar games that Asians are more familiar with, 象棋 Xiang Qi, 西洋棋 Chess, and 將棋 Japanese chess.

Of the 3 games, 將棋 has the most different type of chess pieces. 將棋 has 8. 象棋 has 7, Chess has 6.

Of the 3 games, only 象棋 has 炮 canon that can do long distance damage....

Of the 3 games, Knights in Chess is the more powerful cavalry. In 象棋, you can trip a horse and in 將棋, you cavalry can't move backwards.

Of the 3 games, after reaching the enemy's bottom line, pawns in Chess and 將棋 can become something else. Where in 象棋 such thing doesn't happen.

Of the 3 games, only 將棋 can reuse the pieces that you took from the enemy.

Of the 3 games, only 象棋 has the rule that King can not face off with another King.

[Liang Jieming]

Of the 3 games, only 象棋 has 炮 canon that can do long distance damage....

Actually, that's not a cannon is the modern sense of the word but a catapult which is why it travels in straightlines but fires over the heads of others.

Edited by Liang Jieming, 11 July 2005 - 09:00 PM.

[snowybeagle]

Actually, that's not a cannon is the modern sense of the word but a catapult which is why it travels in straightlines but fires over the heads of others.

Right. Except that the red pieces and black pieces use different Chinese characters.
The red artillery pào use the fire radical which denote a cannon while the black artillery pào use the stone radical which denote the catapult.



Commanders : 將/将 jiàng - General, 帥/帅 shuài - Marshal.

Advisors/Guards : 士 shì - Knight, 仕 shì - Scholar-official.

Ministers/Elephants : 象 xiàng - Elephant, 相 xiàng - Minister.

Calvaries : 馬/马 mă - Horse, 傌 mà - Verb meaning to scold/abuse, use as the red counterpart to black Horse.

Chariots : 車/车 chē/jū - Chariot, 俥 chē/jū - Cart.

Artilleries : 砲 bào - Catapult, 炮 pào - Cannon (firecracker in ancient times).

Infantries : 卒 zú - Footsoldier, 兵 bīng - Soldier.

Some sets did not follow all the conventions though.

Edited by snowybeagle, 11 July 2005 - 09:27 PM.

[Liang Jieming]

Hmm... that must be a modern change to the game I think since Chinese Chess predates gunpowder cannon. My chinesechess set at home doesn't have the fire radical but has the stone radical instead for both red or green.

[AhMan]

and that Han border/Chu river was surely invented after struggle of Han Chu.
The Pao's case was new to me. I never noticed one is cannon and the other is catapult

[CARDINAL009]

I remember back in the APPLE II days.... (wow... yes, long time ago) when I was playing against the computer, I took down his Jiang, and yet the game didn't end.  It continued till i ate every single one of his pawns....

that's one strange bug.

Anyway, to compare the 3 similar games that Asians are more familiar with, 象棋 Xiang Qi, 西洋棋 Chess, and 將棋 Japanese chess.

Of the 3 games, 將棋 has the most different type of chess pieces.  將棋 has 8.  象棋 has 7, Chess has 6.

Of the 3 games, only 象棋 has 炮 canon that can do long distance damage....

Of the 3 games, Knights in Chess is the more powerful cavalry.  In 象棋, you can trip a horse and in 將棋, you cavalry can't move backwards.

Of the 3 games, after reaching the enemy's bottom line, pawns in Chess and 將棋 can become something else.  Where in 象棋 such thing doesn't happen.

Of the 3 games, only 將棋 can reuse the pieces that you took from the enemy.

Of the 3 games, only 象棋 has the rule that King can not face off with another King.

Never play 將棋 [shogi] before.

Of the 3 games, only western chess has a Queen.

Q: In real life, does a queen have more power than a king?

Edited by CARDINAL009, 14 July 2005 - 04:05 PM.

[Liang Jieming]

Not just more power than a king! "Hell hath no fury..."

[qrasy]

Of the 3 games, only western chess has a Queen.

Q: In real life, does a queen have more power than a king?

In Indonesian translation of Western Chess, its called 'Menteri' (Minister) rather than 'Ratu' (Queen). The word seems to be derived from Indian 'Mantri' (also the way to call the piece). Sanskrit Chess have quite different rules of moving from Modern Chess.

Maybe it meant to be 'General', and not 'Queen'. Do other languages call the piece 'Queen' as well?

[snowybeagle]

In Indonesian translation of Western Chess, its called 'Menteri' (Minister) rather than 'Ratu' (Queen). The word seems to be derived from Indian 'Mantri' (also the way to call the piece). Sanskrit Chess have quite different rules of moving from Modern Chess.
Maybe it meant to be 'General', and not 'Queen'. Do other languages call the piece 'Queen' as well?

According to http://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catur
the Queen is still called "Ratu" in Catur (Bahasa Indonesia for Chess).

Could it be that some translators/Chess instructors/writers chose to change it for certain chauvinistic ideals of their own?

[CARDINAL009]

Believe 象棋 is the only game that has a river that seperate each sides from each other.

Also the marshal and general must stay within the city.

While western chess is the only game where there is one move that moves two pieces @ the same time. [Castling]

[naruwan]

Believe 象棋 is the only game that has a river that seperate each sides from each other.

Also the marshal and general must stay within the city.

While western chess is the only game where there is one move that moves two pieces @ the same time. [Castling]

The river actually doesn't do much. It's just another grid without lines cutting accross it.

[CARDINAL009]

Agree w/ you.

* However, the elephant cannot cross the river.

Q: Was the design of the river based on the river setting in China?