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Did Wing Chun originate from Yunnan or Fujian?


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#31 BlueNote

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Posted 13 December 2005 - 09:50 PM

That's great (seriously).

But, I still must question as to whether or not the school in question is really "Wing Chun based".

I suspect that the catch wrestling and the ST-derived MMA training have more to do with the school's success than WC or FMA.

Just a wild guess.


Why go out of your way to make wild guesses ?

The name of the school is "Ying Hung Wing Chun Kuen." Alan ORR the sifu has been training in WC for 17 years......much longer than any of the other arts he teaches.

If you have time, you can read Sifu Orr giving credit to his student's success based on the WC structure. His students won by submissions as well as striking.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion that WC is useless, and it's prob invented by the British anyway.

Good luck to you in your training.

Edited by BlueNote, 13 December 2005 - 11:55 PM.

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#32 Wil

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Posted 28 November 2007 - 04:11 AM

Why go out of your way to make wild guesses ?

The name of the school is "Ying Hung Wing Chun Kuen." Alan ORR the sifu has been training in WC for 17 years......much longer than any of the other arts he teaches.

If you have time, you can read Sifu Orr giving credit to his student's success based on the WC structure. His students won by submissions as well as striking.

Anyway, you are entitled to your opinion that WC is useless, and it's prob invented by the British anyway.

Good luck to you in your training.


I think that Ta-ts'in Centurion makes an interesting comparison between WC and British bare knuckle fighting. In my experience there are some remarkable similarities.

However I do not feel that WC 'originated' in the west.

The WC that I learned came from Fatsan and Guangzhou generally and has much in common with other styles of CMA.

Also WC as it was taught to me was more of a stand up grappling art, with the sticky hands used to trap, lock and break while the legs uprooted, locked or broke. In training a sparring bout would finish when someone's structure was broken and they were not only struck but also locked or dropped (preferably both)

#33 Brian L. Kennedy

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Posted 18 December 2007 - 08:20 PM

Based on the most current research Wing Chun is an offshoot of Yong Chun White Crane. (yes, wing chun and young chun are two way to romanize the same place in Fukien). The system started in Fukien province.

#34 Borjigin Ayurbarwada

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 01:50 AM

This idea has been tossed around for the past 15 or 20 years. To the best of my knowledge, it was first suggested by Wing Chun instructor Karl Godwin, in his brilliant article, "In Search of Wing Chun's Roots--Did it Evolve from Western Boxing or the Shaolin Temple?", which appeared in the June 1986 issue of Black Belt magazine.

Godwin noted the following:

1. There is no actual record of the Buddhist nun Ng Mui even existing. Godwin said that Master Leung Ting stated that he "doubted the historical events and the existence of Wing Chun characters before Leung Jan."

2. Every Wing Chun master has a different location regarding the various Wing Chun temples.

3. Wing Chun masters are totally inconsistent regarding the art's age, putting it at anywhere between 150-300 years old.

4. Wing Chun lacks the ritual of other Chinese styles. There are no salutations at the beginning of its forms.

5. Wing Chun is technically quite different from other Chinese styles.

6. "The pacifist-type tradition found in most kung fu systems is practically nonexistent in Wing Chun".

7. Wing Chun takes much less time to become proficient in, when compared with other Chinese methods.

8. No weapons are native to the Wing Chun system. The bart cham dao and long pole were "introduced from another style".


I already outlined the British "vertical fist" punch, which seems very Wing Chun-like.



Karl Godwin is not a Martial arts historian and to be frank, it seems like that he has rarely practiced other traditional Chinese MA. I've just done some research on the development of southern Chinese martial art and found all of his evidence to be very weak. A lot of southern styles have vertical fists and chain punching along with with parrying guards. Just take Hung Ga for example. It goes all the way back into the early Qing, the Yong Chun White Crane dates back to the late 17th century. All of which are at least as old as British bare knuckled pugilism. No serious martial art historian today would consider Wing chun to be related to boxing, and if you've seen wingchun, its not that hard to realize that its far closer in philosophy to traditional Chinese boxing. The force generation in wingchun is traditional chinese ma based, focusing on the lower part of your body to generate power and stable stance with a firm root on the foot. I'm not exactly sure whether Wingchun is more "pacifist", I haven't trained in wingchun for any length of time, the only southern martial art that I've came across often is the black tiger and Hung ga, both have vertical fists, the former is full of them; but wingchun's fighting philosophy is really little different, it tries to keep its stance at all times and avoid positions where you are clinched to the opponent where the stances are thrown off. This is very different from boxing where the upper half of the body is more focused. Wingchun's sticky hand practice is also really similar to the other Chinese styles, so other than some superficial similarity and a completely undocumented relation, its groundless to assume that it came from boxing.

#35 oliverarodriguez

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Posted 14 June 2009 - 05:25 PM

Some time ago I read that Yim Wing Chun got married with Leung Bok Chao, who was indeed the founder of Wing Chun style. Bok Chao was a Choy Gar Kuen master, disciple of Choy Kau Yee, the very founder of this style. Bok Chao was starting to learn the basis of his wifes figthing philosophy when she died, only three months after their marriage. So Wing Chun style is based on Choy techniques, simplified through Yim Wing Chun´s principles.

I can not say this for certain, but I have practiced Choy style for the last 13 years and I can tell Wing Chun and Choy Gar has very similar movements

Hope this helps
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#36 wingchuntaiji

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Posted 27 December 2009 - 06:43 AM

Godwin didn't conduct sufficient research to support his baseless claims.

Wing Chun is a variation of Southern Shaolin. It is not as popular, in China, as Wong Fei Hung's Southern Shaolin style because it had been viewed as martial arts for female (invented by budhist Nun Ng Mui)
---it was designed to fight against taller people; women were much shorter then men

But, over time, people have adapted WC as an effective fighting technique in closed quarters---in small alley/room, etc. WC is popular in HK and Macao

the suggestion that the Brit sailors introduce WC is just non sense. there're no historical records, anywhere, to support that claim. kung-fu pre-dated the Brit bare-knucke pugilists by thousands of years. WC is a variation of Southern Shaolin kung-fu
actually there is. If only Godwin would go to HK (and Fujien and Guandong provinces). there's lot of historical accounts of her, w pictures. just because there're no historical records in the US (where Godwin lives) doen't mean that there're no historical record in China.

and there is also plenty of historical records that kung-fu pre-dated Brit pugilists by thousands of years.

I just come across this thread. I think that Godwin is either ignorant or trying to promote British bare-knuckle pugilism. There are lots of things in the Wing Chun system that the Westerners don't have!




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