"I don't know that much about UFC, but in the organization Pride FC, many of their fighters come from Brazil, with a background in street fights and such, the sort that you've described being in.
It's true that MMA events like UFC and PFC aren't the end all of "who's the best"
But I think, within those rules, they give a reasonable (at least by my standards) idea of who is the best within the confines of those rules."
The early UFC victories are in no way proves of any sort and they remind me of the early 19th century and early 20th century Lei Tai matches between Chinese fighters and foreign fighters which almost all ended in Chinese victory. Just to give a ew example: Huo Yuan Jia broke the hands of several judokas in 1910, in 1930 Zhang Zhi Jian went to Japan and easily threw his judo opponents on to the ground, Wang Xiang Zhai defeated a Hungarian boxer in 1928 who won the featherweight boxing world champion in just one move, followed by a 6th degree and 5th degree black belt judoka in the early 1940s, both of which were also defeated in one move.
The idea is simple, the early UFC was just like these Chinese victories, the organization was not well known and only attracted second tier fighters from other discipline at best. Although some fighters are quasi-famous, they are not the best of the best in their martial arts. On the other hand, these Chinese masters and Gracies were among the top representatives in their respective ma. Obviously they're victory would be greater.
Secondly, like the early UFC where the opponents of the Gracies knew virtually nothing of BJJ, the opponents these Chinese masters knew virtually nothing of their enemy's techniques and suffered defeat in just one to two moves.
Third, the home territory in both UFC and Chinese lei tai favored the victors, as they are more used to it and it also gave them a psychological boost in a fight.
By examining these earlier Chinese victories, we can see that the early no ruled UFC victories were nothing special and was repeated in China, if bjj came to fight in Chinese lei tai of the 20th century, it might well suffer the same fate as the judokas did, since Helio Gracie lost to the Judo master Kimura in 1955, the superiority of bjj over judo is doubtful, its the person, not the art that makes it practical.
""and if someone consider the Chinese martial art society the "modern martial art world"
If it's just Chinese fighting Chinese with Chinese styles, it's not really the 'world'. ""
Apparently the population of China and India outnumber the so called "modern martial arts world" of MMA. And they have more right to claim a world of their own because they are the majority. Don't you see how this serves as no prove at all? You are picking on a fight and no one gave it to you.
"That is exactly what I think, exept in reverse. Chinese fighters should come to those organizations, or they can stay in China and have the illusionary superiority they think they possess.
If the world's best basketball player is in China, then he should be competing in the NBA, because the NBA is a more developed and much larger organization than Chinese basketball circuits."
Early MMA is not that much larger than Chinese martial arts organization like king of sanda. Pride is pretty small compared to bigger organizations such as K-1. If anything UFC are just a minority group that has a over confident attitude. Furthermore, its common sense that its extremely difficult for any Chinese to get a passport, and if they are under government supervision, it would be hard to do it without government approval. UFC has rules, like K1. Real fightings don't. Thats why they have underground matches.
"It seems more ethnocentric for Chinese to think they are superior to others if they have never competed with them."
Except most Chinese mjartial artists don't think they are superior. Many UFC fighters are the ones that does, thats why they are the ones that are ethnocentric. That was the point.
"The Olympics was started in western countries, many western countries compete, but Chinese compete too. Chinese have proven themselves against western countries and have done super-well in recent years. "
Great, why should they participate in UFC? give me one reason. K-1 fighters gets much more money and fame.
"I believe in the supremacy of Taiji too. But... for me it's like, I can't 'prove it' to a non-believer. It's just an article of 'faith' that I have. If somebody didn't believe me, he could just say "oh, those PRC files are biased" or whatever."
Taiji is not supreme, stop having the best arts in your mind. Any martial art can make you a good fighter, it depends on how much you understand fighting. Tayson only has three punching techniques, straight, hook, and jab, but he could probably beat many sanda fighters in China, even Liu Hailong would not beat him easily and thats admitted by the Chinese sanda community itself.
Edited by Borjigin Ayurbarwada, 06 May 2009 - 01:16 AM.
